# Why is Saudi Arabia killing a journalist such a big issue **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880 "2018-10-12T22:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/81 "2018-10-19T02:43:25Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > … but the second you suggest that maybe Americans should bike more and carpool to decrease our dependency on foreign oil, we will decide that the journalist had it coming. I called it. > [@](#): > > In recent days, a cadre of conservative House Republicans allied with Trump has been privately exchanging articles from right-wing outlets that fuel suspicion of Khashoggi, highlighting his association with the Muslim Brotherhood during his youth and raising conspiratorial questions about his work decades ago as an embedded reporter covering Osama bin Laden, according to four GOP officials involved in the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservatives-mount-a-whisper-campaign-smearing-khashoggi-in-defense-of-trump/2018/10/18/feb92bd0-d306-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0\_story.html?utm\_term=.7366e39503b6](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservatives-mount-a-whisper-campaign-smearing-khashoggi-in-defense-of-trump/2018/10/18/feb92bd0-d306-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html?utm_term=.7366e39503b6) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/82 "2018-10-19T03:00:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Turkish media](https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/one-of-15-member-squad-that-targeted-khashoggi-dies-in-suspicious-car-accident-3463852) are reporting that one of the suspected killers in the Jamaal Khashoggi murder has died in a ‘suspicious’ car crash. Yeah, I wouldn’t want to be [the Saudi Consul in Istanbul](http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/saudi-suspect-in-khashoggi-case-dies-in-car-accident-report-138007) right now. I’d have him in my death pool if I did that sort of thing: "Daily Hürriyet columnist Abdulkadir Selvi claimed on Oct. 18 that Saudi Arabia’s Istanbul consul Mohammad al-Otaibi could be “the next execution” as Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman “would do anything to get rid of evidence.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/83 "2018-10-19T04:22:26Z")
And if you ever wonder why dictatorships peons are never willing to back them up when the shit hits the fan, here is why ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/84 "2018-10-19T14:40:47Z")
I heard the Saudis have completed their investigation. Apparently Khashoggi fell down the stairs and accidentally dismembered himself. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/85 "2018-10-19T15:30:09Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > […] he rightly saw them for what they really were, attempts to get him back home to kill him. Why would he enter the consulate alone? If I were him I would have taken a posse of folks with me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/86 "2018-10-19T17:07:01Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Why would he enter the consulate alone? If I were him I would have taken a posse of folks with me. Perhaps he thought he was safe in Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/87 "2018-10-19T19:21:57Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Why would he enter the consulate alone? If I were him I would have taken a posse of folks with me. It doesn’t always work that way - many consulates require appointments and will only let the person who has the appointment enter. I believe I read that his fiancée was refused entry, which is why she waited outside with his phones. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/88 "2018-10-19T22:32:55Z")
> [@Catsie](#): > > And yes, the deal is for billions, but I can’t recall the amount. (The site where I posted my thing is down, or I’d check.) [$110 Billion according to Trump, but really probably only about 14.5 Billion in reality.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/politics/trump-khashoggi-saudi-arabia-arms-deal-sanctions/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/89 "2018-10-19T22:46:44Z")
Remind me which party is pro-life again? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/90 "2018-10-19T23:54:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Remind me which party is pro-life again? Pro-_fetus._ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/91 "2018-10-20T03:53:28Z")
I just clicked on this thread and am surprised to see nobody has mentioned the “elephant in the room.” Khashoggi didn’t write on American politics, but naturally his writing touched on it, and he did _ **not** _ toe the pro-Trump party line. _ **An American reporter was assassinated by a foreign government.** _ Does anyone of you think that Trump would have been so pleased with this killing had the reporter been pro-Trump rather than anti-Trump? (I’m not sure it’s overwhelmingly unlikely that the Saudis had express permission for the killing, from Kushner or some other lackey.) > [@Jamal Khashoggi](#): > > There have been rumors of Israeli-Saudi discussions over attacking Hezbollah, both directly and through President Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. If true, the reports of late-night meetings between MBS [Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman] and Kushner at the end of October, as well as Kushner’s trip to Israel, take on new meaning considering the events that have followed. > > This pivot could in part be due to the “Trump effect,” particularly the U.S. president’s strong bond with MBS. The two despise Iran and its proxy Hezbollah, a sentiment the Israelis share. Would Trump support the Saudis if they choose to bring Hezbollah down in a war or a Qatari-style blockade? Given the recent rush of the French president — Lebanon’s longtime ally — to Riyadh to check in on Hariri, the Saudis will need Trump’s help. > > … > > [Detroit] which in 2013 filed for the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history, was a story of urban deterioration. Now, under the leadership of [Democratic] Mayor Mike Duggan, Detroit has a new streetcar system, dozens of new and renovated apartment complexes, gleaming new sports stadiums, an expansion of Motown’s Hitsville USA museum and, above all, a fresh “can-do” ethos fostered by the auto giants General Motors and Ford working with the United Auto Workers union. > > Last year, Detroit burst into U.S. News & World Report rankings of the 100 best places to live in the United States at No. 89, only one spot below Los Angeles… > Many inner cities in Saudi Arabia fester today as Detroit once did — they are miserable Third World slums that completely mock the oil riches of the kingdom. So, before MBS ventures into building new cities, perhaps he should deal with the old ones. (What does the success of Mayor Duggan have to do with Trumpism? Are you joking? In the Trumpist alternate reality _ **Duggan cannot even exist** _ — every Democrat is a hateful hypocrite who wants to _worsen_ the lives of the underclass so they will vote Democratic.) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/92 "2018-10-20T04:26:37Z")
So now the “truth” comes out. [https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/world/saudi-arabia-khashoggi-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/world/saudi-arabia-khashoggi-intl/index.html) > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia has confirmed the death of missing Saudi journalist and Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, claiming he died in a fist fight involving more than a dozen Saudi officials at the country’s consulate in Istanbul. Good thing they brought that bone saw with them or those dozen officials could have never held their own against one intrepid reporter! Obviously 12 aren’t enough to safely subdue a man without killing him. So now they should be able to turn over his remains, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/93 "2018-10-20T15:22:32Z")
Thread is typically revealing. It’s being made _such_ a big deal of in part for US domestic political purposes. If Trump ‘underreacts’ he can be tarred as complicit. If he overreacts maybe we get an oil price spike that favors the party out of power\*. Note, same crap has become typical with either party in power. ‘Politics ends at the water’s edge’ is a totally obsolete concept. Which doesn’t mean it’s a zero deal even in a completely realistic view. But the Obama admin’s theory of the Middle East centered on rapprochement with the odious Iranian regime. The Trump theory has swung back to more closeness with the odious Saudi regime. Neither of those general themes are automatically wrong because both rivals are odious. And the (former) mushy middle concept of basing our ME policy just on closeness with Israel (now on the left it’s becoming more of a requirement to be skeptical of Israel which did not used to be as true) doesn’t really address the dilemma anyway. \*despite the big increase in US oil production, to where the impact on the whole US economy from oil price rises has become indeterminate at least for modest oil price increases, on a voter-weighted basis increases are still a negative, and a big increase is a negative (in part for knock on effects on demand in other trading partners). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/94 "2018-10-20T16:08:53Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Thread is typically revealing. It’s being made _such_ a big deal of in part for US domestic political purposes. If Trump ‘underreacts’ he can be tarred as complicit. If he overreacts maybe we get an oil price spike that favors the party out of power\*. Note, same crap has become typical with either party in power. ‘Politics ends at the water’s edge’ is a totally obsolete concept. > > Which doesn’t mean it’s a zero deal even in a completely realistic view. But the Obama admin’s theory of the Middle East centered on rapprochement with the odious Iranian regime. The Trump theory has swung back to more closeness with the odious Saudi regime. Neither of those general themes are automatically wrong because both rivals are odious. And the (former) mushy middle concept of basing our ME policy just on closeness with Israel (now on the left it’s becoming more of a requirement to be skeptical of Israel which did not used to be as true) doesn’t really address the dilemma anyway. > > \*despite the big increase in US oil production, to where the impact on the whole US economy from oil price rises has become indeterminate at least for modest oil price increases, on a voter-weighted basis increases are still a negative, and a big increase is a negative (in part for knock on effects on demand in other trading partners). Oh come on. This game is going to cost the House of Saud billions in “investments” in the US and elsewhere and Abu Ivanka Al Ameriki knows it. After the Kavanaugh debacle and now this, maybe Bin Fred is smarter than he looks. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/95 "2018-10-26T17:29:13Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If the Saudis fall, what replaces them? > > … > The Sunni version the ayatollahs? > > … The Ibn Saud are that already. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/96 "2018-10-26T19:36:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The Ibn Saud are that already. While they publicly support Wahhabism and all that, their private behavior is quite something else. Which of course is the main reason they are sitting on a powder keg of religious resentment. They are quite unlike the Iranian-type Ayatollahs. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/97 "2018-10-26T23:15:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > While they publicly support Wahhabism and all that, their private behavior is quite something else. Ma sha’allah, al Khabr… It is supposed you are informing me about the hypocrite behavior of the Ibn Saud in private? I have the personal knowledge my dear. > [@](#): > > . They are quite unlike the Iranian-type Ayatollahs. Of course, they have less popular legitimacy inside of their own political and religious system. But that is not at all relevant to what I wrote. The person said, what would replace the Ibn Saud, the Sunni version of the ayatallah of the Chia. The Ibn Saud are the Sunni version of the Ayatallah. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/98 "2018-10-27T15:15:25Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > But the Obama admin’s theory of the Middle East centered on rapprochement with the odious Iranian regime. The Trump theory has swung back to more closeness with the odious Saudi regime. Neither of those general themes are automatically wrong because both rivals are odious. This makes it sound as though both administrations took sides, when the rapprochement was at best a small move towards the center. And the nuclear deal was not at all about trusting Iran, quite the opposite. Whereas the current administration very actively and overtly paints Iran as the bad guys, and cozies up to SA while they do basically the same things. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/99 "2018-11-12T07:55:05Z")
Updating this thread about another Saudi journalist tortured to death–with Twitter also at fault: > [@](#): > > Saudi journalist and writer Turki Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Jasser has died after being tortured while in detention, the New Khaleej reported yesterday. > > Reporting human rights sources, the news site said that Al-Jasser was arrested and tortured to death after Saudi authorities claimed he administered the Twitter account Kashkool, which disclosed rights violations committed by the Saudi authorities and royal family. > \*\* > The sources said that the authorities identified Al-Jasser as the admin using moles in Twitter’s regional office located in Dubai.\*\* He was arrested in March. > **[Saudi journalist tortured to death in prison](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181105-saudi-journalist-tortured-to-death-in-prison/)** > > Saudi journalist and writer Turki Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Jasser has died after being tortured while in detention, the New Khaleej reported yesterday. Reporting human rights sources, the news site said... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880/100 "2019-06-19T23:52:47Z")
The UN has published a report on the murder. Washington Post summary: > **[U.N. investigator calls for probe of Saudi officials in Khashoggi killing](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/un-investigator-calls-for-probing-saudi-officials-in-khashoggi-killing/2019/06/19/cf5ee594-91f3-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html)** > > An inquiry into Jamal Khashoggi’s death said high-level Saudi officials, including Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, probably knew a criminal mission was being planned. The complete report: > **[223c16ff-2774-4d3e-8bf7-c3b50406b3a3.pdf](https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/a0bd9e04-ce4a-4382-ab54-a64860e35bfe/note/223c16ff-2774-4d3e-8bf7-c3b50406b3a3.pdf)** > > 1073.20 KB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-saudi-arabia-killing-a-journalist-such-a-big-issue/822880.md?page=6)