# Why is "Savage" such a common last name, given what it means? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211 "2005-08-16T03:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/1 "2005-08-16T03:46:21Z")
Dan Savage. Michael Savage. Fred and Ben Savage. There are plenty of non-celebrity Savages too - any phone book will be full of them. Given the meaning of the word “savage,” why do so many people have it as a last name? Did the word originally mean something else? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/2 "2005-08-16T03:48:30Z")
I’ve been wondering about Coward. I’d hate that as a surname. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/3 "2005-08-16T03:53:46Z")
Death and Raper are two I’d rather not have as well. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/4 "2005-08-16T04:06:25Z")
The word “savage” traces back to the Latin _silva_ (forest or grove.) Although _savage_ today means “wild” or “untamed” with overtones of ferocity or agression, it’s orginal meaning when applied to people was “indomitable” or “valiant.” [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=s&p=5) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/5 "2005-08-16T04:24:11Z")
I once had a coworker whose last name was LeSavage. She said it was of Eastern European extraction, presumably anglicized (?) to its present form. I can see how it might have come from a Slavic name. This may be true of of many of the “Savages” we encounter. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/6 "2005-08-16T05:23:00Z")
Savitch is a pretty common Jewish/Eastern European last name. I’d always assumed that at least some of the Savages are derived from that. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/7 "2005-08-16T06:07:31Z")
“Savage” was a fairly common surname throughout Ireland in the mid-19th century. There were 673 Savage households in the Primary Valuation property survey of 1848-64. The Irish version is _Sabhaois_. [ElectricScotland.com](http://ElectricScotland.com) says, > [@](#): > > The Savages (Sabhaois) are an Anglo-Norman family originally planted in the [Ards [Peninsula]](http://www.geographia.com/northern-ireland/ukidwn01.htm) of County Down by Sir John de Courcy in 1177. They became completely Gaelicized from the fifteenth century onwards, and were prominent on the Irish side in the wars against [Queen] Elizabeth. The Four Masters record the name as Mac an tSabhaisigh—“the son of The Savage.” The Savages retained considerable property down to the [revolution of 1689](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution). Given the surname’s Norman origin, what **Uvula Donor** wrote applies. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/8 "2005-08-16T06:14:29Z")
Fred Savage from _The Wonder Years_ is Jewish, and his surname probably comes from the Savitch-to-Savage route. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/9 "2005-08-16T15:10:57Z")
What about _Lynch_? I’ve encountered the name far more in the Southern US, too, which seems a bit ironic given the history of lynching. What about the RV dealer in Indiana with billboards all over the state - “Tom Raper” or “Tom Rapist” or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/10 "2005-08-16T15:16:12Z")
I’ve often wondered why there aren’t more Lovejoys and Lovecrafts ? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/11 "2005-08-16T15:21:51Z")
The verb “lynch” is relatively modern, named after [Captain William Lynch](http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/l/l0306400.html) of Virginia, who died in 1820. The Irish surname Lynch (Irish _Ó Loingsigh_) goes back centuries, and is from the Irish word _loingseach_, mariner. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/12 "2005-08-16T15:26:09Z")
Bit of a sidetrack, but I was watching a BBC show about the worst jobs in history and was surpirised where some (I thought) inoffensive surnames came from. Take Walker for example. It comes from an old tanning process where you got to walk in a vat full of urine and excrement to help the skins tan. I may never eat Walker’s crisps again! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/13 "2005-08-16T15:48:40Z")
A walker is a person who fulls cloth (fulling is the process of cleansing and thickening cloth by beating and washing). The “walker” walked on damp cloth to thicken it. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/14 "2005-08-16T16:19:20Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > A walker is a person who fulls cloth (fulling is the process of cleansing and thickening cloth by beating and washing). The “walker” walked on damp cloth to thicken it. But urine was what was used in the processing! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/15 "2005-08-16T16:22:38Z")
Not for cloth it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/16 "2005-08-16T16:26:12Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > What about the RV dealer in Indiana with billboards all over the state - “Tom Raper” or “Tom Rapist” or something like that? We have him around here, too. He’s Tom Raper. If I had that name, I’d definitely change it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-savage-such-a-common-last-name-given-what-it-means/317211/17 "2005-08-16T16:31:29Z")
It’s not Walker, but Fuller that comes from the urine-stomping: > [@](#): > > As a fuller, you are expected to walk up and down all day in huge vats of stinking stale urine. The ammonia produced by the rotten wee may make your eyes water, but it creates the softest cloth by drawing out the grease (lanolin) from the wool. [http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/W/worstjobs/medieval.html](http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/W/worstjobs/medieval.html) (Anyone for a pint of Fuller’s?!)