# Why is smoking outlawed in elevators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163 "2003-12-01T03:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/21 "2003-12-01T19:38:08Z")
Why does it have to be a specifically “anti-smokers/all you smokers are evil, evil, evil” ordinance? Why can’t it just be a fairly straightforward “fire safety” issue? A lit cigarette is basically _on fire_. If you touch it to something flammable, like a [chiffon skirt](http://www.safetyalerts.com/rcls/cpsc/pr/94/94117.html) or a [rayon scarf](http://www.safetyalerts.com/rcls/cpsc/pr/95/95162.html) or a [chenille sweater](http://www.kidsource.com/cpsc/sweater.recall.12.18.html) or a [fleece sweatshirt](http://www.babybag.com/cpsc/sweats.htm), it sets it on fire. Not to mention hair, as in Big Hair. By the time you reach the top, 8 seconds later, the person who was unlucky enough to be standing in front of Mr. Not-Watching-What-He-Was-Doing may be badly burned. Why persist in interpreting this–to me–very sensible fire safety ordinance as some kind of discrimination against smokers? [http://www.gazette.net/news/issues\_ideas/smoking/smoke\_yes.html](http://www.gazette.net/news/issues_ideas/smoking/smoke_yes.html) > [@](#): > > March 12, 1999 > > Being a senior means you have had experience from a variety of times. All the brouhaha these days on how bad it will be for restaurants to be non-smoking, how rights are being violated and how investment in premises gives one the right to have things one’s own way reminds me of the time when smoking was allowed in elevators, whether empty or filled. When it was proposed to ban smoking in elevators, the hue and cry was formidable. > > Renters fumed that they paid for space in buildings and ought to be able to do whatever they wanted, elevators were part of their amenities and it would be embarrassing to tell their visitors or clients how to behave. Besides, one only spent a few seconds in an elevator. People using elevators couldn’t understand why they had to put out a just-lighted tobacco product and then light another one a few seconds later. > > Of course, now smoking in an elevator would be considered ridiculous and how could anyone not know it was a health and safety (fire) risk. Smoking is also banned on escalators in some places, where it looks to me like it’s a “fire safety” issue, too. Imagine the chaos ensuing on a crowded escalator with a dropped lit cigarette falling down on top of someone with Big Hair. There are already ordinances banning public smoking in the mall; why add another one singling out escalators? Answer–because it’s a fire safety issue. [http://www.city.lethbridge.ab.ca/gov/bylaws/bl3896/06.htm](http://www.city.lethbridge.ab.ca/gov/bylaws/bl3896/06.htm) > [@](#): > > Subject to Subsection (b), no person shall smoke in an elevator or on an escalator in any building or part thereof… Found a list of Canadian provinces and their non-smoking bylaws. The earliest date I can find is 1973, for North York in Ontario, which was well before the huge anti-public-smoking campaign began. There are a number of other 1970s dates, and a lot of 1980s dates, which was still well before the massive “let’s ban all smoking in public places” movement in the 1990s. Again, it looks to me like it’s a fire safety issue, not a “smokers are evil so let’s punish them” issue. [http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/pdf/tab1\_5.pdf](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/pdf/tab1_5.pdf) So, to address the OP… > [@](#): > > I’ve never seen curtains or carpet in an elevator, so i don’t think it’s a fire hazard issue. …it’s a “clothing” and “hair” fire hazard issue. Elevators are full of people, and people are flammable. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/22 "2003-12-01T19:43:52Z")
We may never know without transcripts from the legislatures that crafted these laws. I suspect it’s akin to laws against spitting on the sidewalk – it’s disgusting to most people, and the smokers/spitters have plenty of leeway elsewhere, such as smoking anywhere but in the elevator (at the time the laws were enacted) and spitting in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/23 "2003-12-01T19:47:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho \* > \*\*I’ve never seen an elevator inside a building one could smoke in anyway. I always just figured they put the sign there because people might try to sneak in a quick smoke on their way to the hundredth floor. \*\* My goodness, you must be a young pup. Back before anyone even heard of a “non-smoking” building, there were always ashtrays next to the elevator doors so the smokers could extinguish before boarding. ---
**Author:** ![WoMackdaddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@WoMackdaddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoMackdaddie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/24 "2003-12-01T20:37:02Z")
Well, I must not get out much anymore, I do recall ashtrays near elevator doors in some hotels, and some major commercial buildings. But things are changing, and regarding Shrinking Violet, I am also in the fourth category that I so shamefully opted, and my apologies. I still can’t get over the fact that people are so worried about things catching fire in an elevator, i catch on fire all the time, and not ONCE has it been from a cigarette. Not to boast my own legitimacy but consider again about what i said about the legislature:"3. Non-smokers who loathe the substance and have had bad association with tobacco and family members/friends. and: “I think the “fire code” is synomonous with ‘legislative occupants who are type #3 on my list of people who ride elevators’ and just hate the smell of it and love their good ol’ virgin lungs.” And the more I think about it, and put myself in someone elses shoes, it is a disgusting habit. Take for example, today, I was eating lunch with a friend of mine who was eating hard boiled eggs…I abhor the smell of hard boiled eggs, and so i asked him to either eat really quick or i would have to leave. I guess it really follows along the guidlines of who is in what position of who is making the nucsance occur. Ok, once again off subject…big hair?!? what are we? in the 70’s? are we making vidal sassoon a monopolizing business? I think the real problem here is hair that has more volume than a Deep Purple concert. Not to sound rude and i’m sure someone will have something to say against this. Back ON subject, I think not smoking in an elevator is a good thing, since i am also on the recent addendum of #4 on the list of people who ride elevators, it really is just common courtesy. No fires, no big hair, it’s just because people don’t like it, simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/25 "2003-12-01T20:42:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*There are already ordinances banning public smoking in the mall; why add another one singling out escalators? Answer–because it’s a fire safety issue. \*\* [Kings Cross Underground Fire.](http://www.firetactics.com/KINGSCROSS.htm) Killed 31, started on an escalator, probably by a discarded match. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/26 "2003-12-01T20:54:16Z")
A quick check of _NFPA 101 - Life Safety Code_ and _NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm Code_ didn’t provide much information (though I only spent about 10 minutes looking). Anyway, NFPA 101 requires ashtrays where smoking is allowed, and perhaps this isn’t high on the list of features a building owner wants in his elevators. Apparantly the bottom of an elevator hoistway is a place where trash accumulates, and in the case of a hydraulic elevator, this can also be mixed with oil. It’s a slim chance, but a guess a cigarette butt could fall in the space between the elevator and the landing. Not a good place for a fire. Additionally, some elevator hoistways can be equipped with smoke detectors (but not the cars themselves), and if the hoistway isn’t ventilated, I suppose smoke could accumulate to the point where the detector goes off, but that would take more than a few cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/27 "2003-12-01T23:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*Does anybody remember when this started to become popular? Did it initially draw the ire of the smoking crowd like the restaurant & bar smoking bans are doing now? In all of the smoking ban threads in GD, I don’t see any of the anti-legislation folks saying what a crime it is that banned smkoing in elevators so I am thinking there’s got to be a bona fide reason for doing so. \*\* Well the Brownshirts had to start small somewhere, but no biggie , as long as the elevator is empty , I light up. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/28 "2003-12-01T23:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by joeybaby \* > \*\*I think they should amend the rules… no smoking in elevators in the presence of people with iron lungs and pregnant women. Everyone else, you probably get more carcinogens from eating a steak then inhaling a few puffs… \*\* I promise you, the very next time someone forces me to eat steak against my will, I’ll leap to my feet and shout “Hey! maybe **joeybaby** has a point!”. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/29 "2003-12-02T00:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WoMackdaddie \* > **i catch on fire all the time, and not ONCE has it been from a cigarette.** Uh, I hate to break it to you, but somehow I don’t think your experiences represent those of most people. I am, however, quite curious as to how you manage to set yourself on fire on a regular basis. > [@](#): > > Ok, once again off subject…big hair?!? Hey, I’ve seen people whose hair is still stuck in the '80s. Even if that wasn’t the case, people still use hairspray. Have you ever held a lighter in front of a can of that stuff and sprayed it? It looks like a damn flamethrower! There’s also the issue of highly flammable clothing that you didn’t address. Also, not everyone has the reflexes or physical ability to put out a flaming head of hair or scarf. You may somehow manage to burst into flames every day, and thus be well-prepared to extinguish the blaze, but I’m pretty sure my 99-year old great-grandmother doesn’t share your cat-like reflexes and propensity for self-incineration. Lastly, a request, if I may? Put paragraph breaks in your posts. It makes them much easier to read. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/30 "2003-12-02T01:15:40Z")
People used to smoke in elevators back in the day, I promise you. It really sucked. The “I’m the only one here” whiners ( **Declan** ) never thought of the possibility that the car might pick someone up at the next floor, I assume. The signs in the elevators at work don’t say anything about any law, they just say “NO SMOKING”. Which makes it a rule of the owner, I guess. Anyway, smoking is prohibited in the entire building by law. I guess that covers it. So maybe there is no law specific to smoking in elevators. People are discovering how _nice_ it is not to have smoke around, so the restrictions will only get worse (better). Brownshirt since 10/25/02. 🙂 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/31 "2003-12-02T01:39:45Z")
Point of clarification: Does the term “Brownshirts” invoke a Godwin? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/32 "2003-12-02T01:43:37Z")
No, because there is no argument or debate in progress. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/33 "2003-12-02T01:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Papermache Prince \* > \*\*Point of clarification: Does the term “Brownshirts” invoke a Godwin? \*\* I assumed it referred to “anti-smoking nazis”. No? ---
**Author:** ![WoMackdaddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@WoMackdaddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoMackdaddie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/34 "2003-12-02T01:52:46Z")
ok, neutron star, your request is taken, I apologize though, I am new with message boards, and am simply unfamiliar with the format in which i am to follow. But seriously, just because a man ‘somehow’ manages to catch on fire on a daily basis, he should still be taken seriously. As for the large hair, I personally think that’s ridiculous. That should have been just plain eradicated from this planet. People are assuming that the smokers are the evil ones. Do people who use tons of hairspray not realize the health risk they are taking when they leave their house? Maybe people who smoke loathe the fact that they can’t light up in fear that some stranger may come too close and start to combust. Sure, go ahead, blame the victim… But in all honesty, i do believe that the rules are for the safety of the population, but i am on the side of the spectrum that the rule is against, so i naturally stake out my position and attempt to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/35 "2003-12-02T02:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*People used to smoke in elevators back in the day, I promise you. It really sucked. The “I’m the only one here” whiners ( **Declan** ) never thought of the possibility that the car might pick someone up at the next floor, I assume. > The signs in the elevators at work don’t say anything about any law, they just say “NO SMOKING”. Which makes it a rule of the owner, I guess. Anyway, smoking is prohibited in the entire building by law. I guess that covers it. So maybe there is no law specific to smoking in elevators. > People are discovering how _nice_ it is not to have smoke around, so the restrictions will only get worse (better). > Brownshirt since 10/25/02. 🙂 > Peace, > mangeorge \*\* I, too, remember when you would encounter people who’d smoke in elevators in the US. And in Europe, it wasn’t even that long ago. Amazing. Simply amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/36 "2003-12-02T02:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*People used to smoke in elevators back in the day, I promise you. It really sucked. The “I’m the only one here” whiners ( **Declan** ) never thought of the possibility that the car might pick someone up at the next floor, I assume. > The signs in the elevators at work don’t say anything about any law, they just say “NO SMOKING”. Which makes it a rule of the owner, I guess. Anyway, smoking is prohibited in the entire building by law. I guess that covers it. So maybe there is no law specific to smoking in elevators. > People are discovering how _nice_ it is not to have smoke around, so the restrictions will only get worse (better). > Brownshirt since 10/25/02. 🙂 > Peace, > mangeorge \*\* Till someone gets put up against a wall and shot ,but thats hypothethical 🙂 As to whining , nope not me ,its defacto now in pretty much everywhere i have seen , cept for mexico( acupulco and that may have changed since I was there a couple years ago) I just do it anyways 🙂 Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/37 "2003-12-02T03:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Papermache Prince \* > \*\*Point of clarification: Does the term “Brownshirts” invoke a Godwin? \*\* I think that meant the word Nazi or Nazis , up until a certain time in the 30’s the brownshirts were a separate organization from the nationalist socialist party. Declan ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/38 "2003-12-03T00:10:41Z")
Up yours, **Papermache Prince**. 😉 Now I’m going to have to find out what the hell “invoke a Godwin” means. I found a Godwin, an english atheist back in the day, but I have no idea how to invoke him/her/it. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/39 "2003-12-03T00:35:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WoMackdaddie \* > \*\*As for the large hair, I personally think that’s ridiculous. That should have been just plain eradicated from this planet. People are assuming that the smokers are the evil ones. Do people who use tons of hairspray not realize the health risk they are taking when they leave their house? Maybe people who smoke loathe the fact that they can’t light up in fear that some stranger may come too close and start to combust. Sure, go ahead, blame the victim… \*\* For the record, one need not use any hair products in order to have "large"hair, and because one does use potentially flammable hair products does not mean that they will also have large hair. The two have correlation but not causation. The mouse and gel used for very sleek, close 'dos and the moisturizing products used by those with very dry hair can present just as much of a fire hazard as a head full of aerosol Aqua Net super hold because almost all of them have some type of alcohol (or oil) in them. But hair is pretty flammable in and of itself. It goes up quickly, smells awful, and burns to the scalp, neck and face can easily result. Mr. TeaElle’s sister died after she leaned too close to a candle, her hair ignited, the fire spread to her clothing and she received third degree burns to more than 60% of her body. Fire is no joke. So, **Declan** , is it just that you don’t care about those who might get on the elevator at the next floor or after you’ve left, or that no one has called you on your unnecessary, antisocial behavior or what? I mean, can you present a single legitimate reason for smoking in elevators despite laws and regulations against doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-smoking-outlawed-in-elevators/216163/40 "2003-12-03T00:36:13Z")
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