# Why is "street" treated differently? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576 "2018-12-23T17:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/21 "2018-12-26T23:13:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **mixdenny** : > > In Cleveland some such names are Avenue in the city limits, and Road in the suburbs. See, we have rules for the rules. Detroit Ave, Detroit Rd, Lorain Ave, Lorain Rd. > > Dennis Detroit is certainly an Avenue in the city of Cleveland proper, and a Road in Rocky River and further west. I’m just not sure whether Lakewood matches with Cleveland or with the other suburbs. On checking Google Maps, it looks like the major east-west streets in Lakewood alternate between “Avenue” and “Boulevard”: You’ve got Lake Ave., Clifton Blvd. (which is also a boulevard in Cleveland), Detroit Ave., Franklin Blvd (which is an Avenue in Cleveland), Madison Ave., and Lakewood Heights Blvd. Cleveland also has Ridge Road, which is a road even in the Cleveland city limits, and is one of the few north-south throughfares that has a name instead of a number. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/22 "2018-12-27T01:18:54Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I can’t find any examples of it now, but at one time didn’t some of the signage in certain NYC subway stations bear that out? I know I’ve seen photos of some of the platforms where there’s nothing but the street number. For instance, if there was a station at 45th Street, you would just see the number 45 on the platform posts. I don’t think they do that anymore, but I’ve certainly seen old photos of this. They still have that. The 72nd St stop just says “72” on the walls. (Signage on the poles and platform say 72nd St, but the tiled walls just say 72.) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/23 "2018-12-27T01:58:23Z")
In Melbourne, a street is a location. It’s modified to tell you which location: STATION street is the street at the (railway) station. A road isn’t a location: it’s a characteristic of location: High Street ROAD is the road that takes you to High Street. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/24 "2018-12-27T06:14:13Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I discovered this about San Francisco in my first week living here. If the address says just “123 3rd” it means 3rd St, not 3rd Avenue. SF has numbered streets and numbered avenues (the streets go up to 30th, the avenues go up to 48th). Numbered streets and numbered avenues don’t cross, which reduces confusion somewhat. I can deal with numbered streets crossing numbered _avenues_. What’s crazy about SF is that numbered streets cross numbered _streets_! 3rd Street crosses 16th Street and a bunch of others all the way down to like, 26th Street. 😕😕😕 What’s even weirder is that 15th Street\* becomes \*8th Street which then ends when it runs into 16th Street. :eek::smack: ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/25 "2018-12-27T06:30:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One notable exception any Clevelander would recognize is “West Boulevard” and “East Boulevard”. Those two streets, for whatever reason, are _never_ referred to as just “West” or “East”. In Indianapolis there’s a street named Boulevard. At least it’s not named Boulevard Boulevard; it’s Boulevard Place. Still, I think Boulevard is a dumb name for a street. What’s next, “Street”? Or maybe “Street Road”? ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/26 "2018-12-27T10:25:12Z")
In NYC (Queens), I lived on 21st. Between 21st and 21st. Try giving someone directions to that… When friends visited, I’d just meet them on Astoria Blvd. or something and guide them in. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/27 "2018-12-27T13:07:52Z")
Looking online, I found this > [@](#): > > Roach (2013) is however fairly cautious about these rules, but states in this way that they are genuinely helpful to teachers and learners alike. Tayler (1991) suggests that by following the predictability and information-conveying feature of either part of the compound stress is determined. Thus PARK Street, as opposed to PARK Avenue PARK Road or PARK Place. > Street is the more common and predictable term in these cases, and is thus de-accented as opposed to the less common terms such as place square terrace grove lane avenue and many others which are all accented. From [https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED580168.pdf](https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED580168.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/28 "2018-12-27T13:48:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “It’s English, Jake.” > > Rules (if they even exist) are flexible, and ignored. This is precisely how linguistics _doesn’t_ work. If you think you have a rule, and you see that the rule isn’t followed consistently, you don’t conclude there are no rules, you conclude the rules are more complicated than you first imagined. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/29 "2018-12-27T16:32:24Z")
> [@](#): > > In Indianapolis there’s a street named Boulevard. At least it’s not named Boulevard Boulevard; it’s Boulevard Place. Still, I think Boulevard is a dumb name for a street. What’s next, “Street”? Or maybe “Street Road”? My own address is of this form. Except it’s not really a “drive” at all (or a street or a road or whatever); it’s just a parking lot with a street sign. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/30 "2018-12-27T16:46:11Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > In Indianapolis there’s a street named Boulevard. At least it’s not named Boulevard Boulevard; it’s Boulevard Place. Still, I think Boulevard is a dumb name for a street. What’s next, “Street”? Or maybe “Street Road”? Toronto has a major artery called Avenue Road. Close enough? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/31 "2018-12-27T16:54:58Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Other examples:The WHITE House is not, in fact, a WHITE HOUSE, but rather a large white building. > The GREEN HOUSE on Elm has a GREENhouse in back that’s filled with plants. I remember in an English class how empathising makes a difference: [ul] [li]A _white_ house cat[/li][li]A white _house_ cat[/li][li]A white house _cat_[/li][/ul]And personally, I say _black_ board, not black _board_. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/32 "2018-12-28T06:15:44Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I remember in an English class how empathising makes a difference: > [ul] > [li]A _white_ house cat[/li][li]A white _house_ cat[/li][li]A white house _cat_[/li][/ul]And personally, I say _black_ board, not black _board_. Yeah, I can’t say I’ve ever heard someone say blackBOARD. It’s always BLACKboard. ---
**Author:** ![I.Dunno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@I.Dunno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I.Dunno)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/33 "2018-12-29T00:08:55Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Here in Chicago, the street called Broadway is unique in that the name stands alone. > > [Broadway (Chicago) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(Chicago)) I wouldn’t say it’s unique. Broadway in St. Louis is handled the same. Oh, and I agree on “blackboard”. I’ve never heard it any way but BLACKboard. And I’ve sat in front of many of them. (I know, now they’re all WHITEboards, but whatever.)[ol] [/ol] ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/34 "2018-12-29T00:42:29Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Yeah, I can’t say I’ve ever heard someone say blackBOARD. It’s always BLACKboard. I was confused initially by the OP, as well, but the point is “a black board” vs “a blackboard.” That is, any ol’ board that is black vs. a board that is black that is intended to be written upon with chalk. Now, for me, the stress might not be as exaggerated as “black BOARD” vs “BLACKboard,” but for “black board” it would be at least equal stress to both words, if not slightly more to the latter, while “blackboard” would be “BLACKboard” with a definite lesser stress on the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/35 "2018-12-29T06:19:08Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > In Indianapolis there’s a street named Boulevard. At least it’s not named Boulevard Boulevard; it’s Boulevard Place. Still, I think Boulevard is a dumb name for a street. What’s next, “Street”? Or maybe “Street Road”? In Santa Clarita, CA there’s The Old Road, which on GPS appears as THE OLD rd. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/36 "2018-12-29T06:55:37Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Toronto has a major artery called Avenue Road. Close enough? Yes. You win. That’s a good one! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/37 "2018-12-29T12:35:34Z")
Avenue Road is fairly common in the UK. There is no logic whatsoever in the naming of roads as street, avenue, road, boulevard, crescent, or any other descriptor that a planner can come up with. Milton Keynes is a planned City and any road with the descriptor ‘Way’ is roughly East/West; ‘Streets’ are N/S. Within the grid, however, there are numerous Closes, Courts, Places & Drives. ‘Road’, although the most common, seems to be a modern usurper as there is only one (Goswell Road) in The City of London. Technically an Avenue should be tree-lined and a boulevard should be wide and attractive, but this is far from a rule, as developers always want to make their boring rows of little boxes sound more attractive than they are. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/38 "2018-12-29T13:03:35Z")
> [@I.Dunno](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s unique. Broadway in St. Louis is handled the same. Ditto Broadway in Portland, OR. Boulevard in Atlanta is another suffix-less street. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/39 "2018-12-29T13:07:48Z")
Avenue Road Parkway. Sounds like one of those developments where they drew nouns out of a hat. Elk Knoll Vale Estates. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576/40 "2018-12-29T15:51:02Z")
Somewhat related, it’s interesting how people sometimes re-parse names, and I think stress was part of the issue in the following case. In the village I used to live in, New Hyde Park, one of the main drags was New Hyde Park Road, said with the stress on the first and last words. There is a large elementary school on this road, named the New Hyde Park Road School. That’s obviously too long to say regularly, so it got shortened – to the Road School, reparsing its name as if it were “the Road School in New Hyde Park” rather than “the school on New Hyde Park Road.” And that’s the apparent meaning if you say the full name with its natural stress on the word “Road.” It’s just unnatural (to this native English speaker) to stress (only) the first and last words in the full name, as that leaves too many unstressed words in a row. I suspect things would have been rather different if the road were named “New Hyde Park Street,” as the emphasis would have fallen on “Park” instead of “Street,” as it usually does when people say “New Hyde Park.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-street-treated-differently/826576.md?page=3)