# Why Is Ted kennedy being Deified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372 "2008-05-23T16:05:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/1 "2008-05-23T16:05:36Z")
Yes, I know, I have been a bit harsh, in my critique of this man. But, the Kennedy mythos is at work again-they are praising this guy to no end? In my opinion, Kennedy was just another politician-obsessed with holding on to power, and carless with other people’s lives and fortunes. I am reminded of F. S. Fitzgerald’s “THE GREAT GATSBY” (asessment of Tom and Daisy Buchanan: “…they were careless people, who smashed up people and things, then retreated into their carelessness” (did i get that right?) Anyway, I senes the propaganda machine going in to high gear-if Kennedy croaks, we are going to see a full-court press, to appoint ANOTHER Kennedy to the senate seat. Enough is enough! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/2 "2008-05-23T16:21:02Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] But, the Kennedy mythos is at work again-they are praising this guy to no end? [/quote] Which mythos? Who is the “they” you’re referring to here? His colleagues and friends are praising him up and down the line, it’s true, but that’s to be expected. They always do that. Politicians who are sick or dying get lionized, both because they develop respect for each other from working together, and because that’s how the healthy ones would want to be treated if they were sick or dying. Shit, if they did it to Richard Nixon, it’s nothing if they do it to Ted Kennedy. > [@](#): > > In my opinion, Kennedy was just another politician-obsessed with holding on to power, and carless with other people’s lives and fortunes. My knowledge of the man’s life is far from in-depth, but if you’re referring to his philandering, he mostly harmed himself. How do you get “obsessed with power” and what lives did he ruin? I’m not overlooking Mary Jo Kopechne; that’d be a sizable blot even on a life full of nothing but good works. But what are you adding to that? > [@](#): > > I am reminded of F. S. Fitzgerald’s “THE GREAT GATSBY” (asessment of Tom and Daisy Buchanan: “..they were careless people, who smashed up people and things, then retreated into their carelessness” (did i get that right?) You definitely got the gist of it. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I senes the propaganda machine going in to high gear-if Kennedy croaks, we are going to see a full-court press, to appoint ANOTHER Kennedy to the senate seat. This is being discussed in another thread, and it looks like the options are limited. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/3 "2008-05-23T16:21:16Z")
To paraphrase [Hubert Humphrey](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n40_v14/ai_21278585), no decent person wishes a brain tumor on Ted Kennedy, and neither do I. Think of it as proactively [de mortuis nil nisi bonum](http://askville.amazon.com/Latin-tag-Speak-ill-dead/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2898412). No doubt when Bush announces he is suffering from a fatal illness, many politicians, even Democrats, will find something nice to say about him. I ran into some disagreement the last time I discussed the possibility of another Kennedy in his seat, so I will leave that alone for the moment. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/4 "2008-05-23T16:23:14Z")
Eh, he’s been around in the Senate for 40 years, he’s the last surviving relevant Kennedy, and he’s dying. So everyone is saying nice things about him because there’s no point in saying mean things. A week after he’s dead, people will go about their business and he’ll be forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/5 "2008-05-23T16:25:23Z")
The same reason they deified Reagan and Nixon. Because he’s dead (almost). That’s what the media does. They pile up the sentiment. Hagiography is better for business than speaking ill of the deceased. People enjoy a good cry at a funeral even if they couldn’t stand the son of a bitch. Kennedy merits more praise than a lot of politicians do – certainly more than Reagan. He was obviously flawed, but if he was no saint, he was also not the venal, cartoonish buffoon he is painted as by the right. he did a lot to advocate for the working class, for civil rights and for women. He is a legendary figure with a huge legacy, whether conservatives like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/6 "2008-05-23T16:27:38Z")
Just as a reference, in Massachussetts, the governor can’t appoint someone to the senate to fill a vacancy. A special election has to be held. This law was passed by the Mass. legislature in 2004 to guarantee that Governor Rommney wouldn’t appoint a Republican to fill the seat that would have gone vacant had Kerry won in 2004. As to why people are saying good stuff about him like this, first of all, he’s sick, probably only has a year or two left, and we tend to say good things about those people who are dying. Secondly, while you don’t like him or his politics, a lot of people do. Kennedy spent a lot of time fighting for liberal causes, and obviously, if you think liberal causes are right, you’re going to be pleasantly disposed to him. And the quote is: > [@](#): > > They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/7 "2008-05-23T16:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] …As to why people are saying good stuff about him like this, first of all, he’s sick, probably only has a year or two left, and we tend to say good things about those people who are dying. Secondly, while you don’t like him or his politics, a lot of people do. Kennedy spent a lot of time fighting for liberal causes, and obviously, if you think liberal causes are right, you’re going to be pleasantly disposed to him… [/QUOTE] Of course, those who hate liberal causes see this as another opportunity to spew their hate. The rest of us also take a moment to remember his brothers who did not live long enough to die natural deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/8 "2008-05-23T17:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Just as a reference, in Massachussetts, the governor can’t appoint someone to the senate to fill a vacancy. A special election has to be held. This law was passed by the Mass. legislature in 2004 to guarantee that Governor Rommney wouldn’t appoint a Republican to fill the seat that would have gone vacant had Kerry won in 2004. As to why people are saying good stuff about him like this, first of all, he’s sick, probably only has a year or two left, and we tend to say good things about those people who are dying. Secondly, while you don’t like him or his politics, a lot of people do. Kennedy spent a lot of time fighting for liberal causes, and obviously, if you think liberal causes are right, you’re going to be pleasantly disposed to him. [/QUOTE] I think liberal causes are right, and I think Ted Kennedy is one of the worst human beings ever to serve in government. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/9 "2008-05-23T17:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] I think liberal causes are right, and I think Ted Kennedy is one of the worst human beings ever to serve in government. [/QUOTE] Then why did so many conservative Republicans co-sponsor legislation with him? Surely their superior morality would prevent them from conspiring with such a poor example of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/10 "2008-05-23T17:45:31Z")
I’ve been wondering about this, and I’m leaning towards “He’s dieing, let’s play nice” with a healthy dose of “end of an era”. Ted is the last link to Camelot, sentimentally seen as an idyllic time in the US, where happy pretty people ran the country in a more innocent time. (ignore the missiles and snipers behind the curtain) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/11 "2008-05-23T17:56:59Z")
That’s the point i’m trying to make-GROW UP, PEOPLE! The Kennedy family are NOT saints; they have generated a mythology (“camelot”) which was never true. Oh, i know, it is like (when you are a kid) finding out that santa Claus isn’t real. This country was founded on the idea that we DON’T need a royal family! If you want one, move to England. I wish we had a government where: -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( or senior managers) Then we would have some intelligence in governmnet, and sensible decisions 9free of the lawyer/hucksters/kennedy-types! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/12 "2008-05-23T18:20:22Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I wish we had a government where: -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( or senior managers) [/QUOTE] So basically you’re tired of democracy and you want to go back to oligarchy. You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but you shouldn’t be surprised that it isn’t widely shared. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/13 "2008-05-23T18:21:32Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] That’s the point i’m trying to make-GROW UP, PEOPLE! The Kennedy family are NOT saints; they have generated a mythology (“camelot”) which was never true. Oh, i know, it is like (when you are a kid) finding out that santa Claus isn’t real. This country was founded on the idea that we DON’T need a royal family! If you want one, move to England. I wish we had a government where: -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( or senior managers) Then we would have some intelligence in governmnet, and sensible decisions 9free of the lawyer/hucksters/kennedy-types! [/QUOTE] Luckily for the rest of us, you haven’t found a lamp with a wish granting genie in it. Clearly, you haven’t been around very many engineers/scientists/MD’s. Their background in those technical fields in no way indicates that they would provide “intelligence in government and sensible decisions.” OTOH, maybe you come from one of those fields and it’s just ego leading you to make such a statement. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/14 "2008-05-23T18:47:14Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] The Kennedy family are NOT saints; they have generated a mythology (“camelot”) which was never true. Oh, i know, it is like (when you are a kid) finding out that santa Claus isn’t real. [/quote] Everybody in the world knows this already. JFK’s affairs are very common knowledge - he supposedly had an affair with Marilyn Monroe, and some people even think he had her killed. You really can’t be any more high-profile about your infidenlity. > [@](#): > > This country was founded on the idea that we DON’T need a royal family! If you want one, move to England. England doesn’t need a royal family either. But people like attaching scandalous and aspiration qualities to celebrities. You can’t possibly have just noticed this. > [@](#): > > I wish we had a government where: > -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science > -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( > or senior managers) > Then we would have some intelligence in governmnet, and sensible decisions 9free of the lawyer/hucksters/kennedy-types! **ralph241c** , a technocrat! Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/15 "2008-05-23T18:53:47Z")
“…they have generated a mythology…” The Kennedy’s didn’t, we did that for them. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/16 "2008-05-23T18:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] England doesn’t need a royal family either. But people like attaching scandalous and aspiration qualities to celebrities. You can’t possibly have just noticed this. [/QUOTE] At least nobody went over the top with the deification when Diana died. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/17 "2008-05-23T18:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] That’s the point i’m trying to make-GROW UP, PEOPLE! The Kennedy family are NOT saints; they have generated a mythology (“camelot”) which was never true. Oh, i know, it is like (when you are a kid) finding out that santa Claus isn’t real. [/QUOTE] And what other groundbreaking surprises do you wish to share with us? A revelation about the color of the sky? Perhaps a startling discovery concerning the sum of two and two? Somebody here certainly needs to grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/18 "2008-05-23T19:14:13Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I wish we had a government where: -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( or senior managers) Then we would have some intelligence in governmnet, and sensible decisions 9free of the lawyer/hucksters/kennedy-types! [/QUOTE] Right! Because our government should be as efficient as universities! Uh… wait a minute. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/19 "2008-05-23T19:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I wish we had a government where: -every senator HAD to have a Ph.D in engineering or science -representatives had to have worked as engineers, scientists, or medical doctors ( or senior managers) Then we would have some intelligence in governmnet, and sensible decisions 9free of the lawyer/hucksters/kennedy-types! [/QUOTE] Because the presidency of nuclear engineer James Earl Carter was a high point of American history. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372/20 "2008-05-23T19:22:15Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] And what other groundbreaking surprises do you wish to share with us? A revelation about the color of the sky? Perhaps a startling discovery concerning the sum of two and two? [/QUOTE] Top-secret bear defecation locales? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ted-kennedy-being-deified/450372.md?page=2)