# Why is the 1st Amendment absolute and people want to limit the 2nd Amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017 "2012-12-24T15:46:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/21 "2012-12-24T19:16:42Z")
[United States free speech exceptions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/22 "2012-12-24T20:47:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > **Why is the 1st Amendment absolute and people want to limit the 2nd Amendment?** [ul] [li]If anything there’s more support for limiting the First Amendment, especially by pro-Second Amendment people. Just look at all the people who insist the solution to gun crime is banning video games or “putting God back in the schools”.[/li][li]Some people feel the Second Amendment has been seriously misinterpreted.[/li][li]Some people feel the Second Amendment is a bad idea and should be eliminated.[/li][li]Some people feel that the First Amendment is necessary for a free society, and the Second Amendment isn’t.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/23 "2012-12-24T21:01:36Z")
The OP’s premise is wrong. The First Amendment is not absolute and never has been regarded as absolute. There are plenty of reasonable limits placed on First Amendment rights. Most gun control advocates just want to hold to the same standard and place reasonable limits on Second Amendment rights. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/24 "2012-12-24T21:27:17Z")
It’s also worth remembering that the Second Amendment is explicitly motivated by the need for “a well-regulated militia” which certainly at the very least implies the need for some sort of “regulation”. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/25 "2012-12-24T21:39:02Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Many (most??) espousing Islam have fallen under close scrutiny. Government support for Christian schools and Christian missionaries has pretty much ended the 1st article of the amendment. (Note the controversy in Louisiana when their legislature found out the Muslim schools also got aid) Nonsense. The fact that Fred Phelps can say whatever they wish without censorhip means that the First Amendment is going strong even if imperfectly applied. Or was the First Amendment a dead letter until the Supreme Court ruled against mandated prayers in schools? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [ul] > [li]If anything there’s more support for limiting the First Amendment, especially by pro-Second Amendment people. Just look at all the people who insist the solution to gun crime is banning video games or “putting God back in the schools”.[/li][/ul] Laws censoring “obscene” or otherwise objectionable materials or public schools educating children in religion have existed throughout American history even when the 1st Amendment was in effect. While I don’t support it, the people who do support it are much like those who support the Second Amendment but only for a “militia” or now a National Guard,. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/26 "2012-12-25T00:42:22Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Why are you thinking that all Amendments were created equal? Some really are absolute, e.g. freeing the slaves, and can never be tampered with. Others involve rights in which there is somewhat of a gray area, e.g. cruel and unusual punishment, that needs to be more clearly defined, including possible exceptions. The Second Amendment is another example of a “gray-area” issue that’s never been clearly defined to everyone’s satisfaction. And it probably never will. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Simply because they believe the First Amendment is a good idea and the Second is not. That is all, really. Right. 1st Amendment \>\>\> 2nd Amendment. The first is far more significant. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/27 "2012-12-25T00:44:08Z")
If the 1st amendment were “absolute”, we’d all have to work tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/28 "2012-12-25T00:58:24Z")
We restrict pornography because we’re afraid of the effect it might have on children, even though it’s perfectly safe in the hands (heh) of responsible adults like me. And some types of porn, though legal in many western democracies and harmless to the participants, is outlawed even for adults in the US. I don’t see much difference between that, and laws restricting the types of guns or clips people can own. But my personal opinion is that we need a new amendment that repeals the current second amendment, and clarifies the right of weapon ownership and the power of the government to regulate it. IMO, the second amendment as written allows me to have a hydrogen bomb in my house. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/29 "2012-12-25T01:16:38Z")
There’s a difference in wording. The First Amendment forbids laws “abridging” freedom of speech, etc. The Second says the right to bear arms shall not be “infringed”. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/30 "2012-12-25T01:39:11Z")
A constitutional amendment allowing the prohibition of flag desecration came within **one vote** of going to the states in 2006, so I don’t think it’s at all clear that the country tolerates it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/31 "2012-12-25T11:45:56Z")
Look, we can debate about what is a reasonable restriction on any amendment we desire, any right.But if the OP thinks the First Amendment has no exceptions, he has been shown to be laughably wrong. Whereas, it is trivially easy to find mainstream gun support advocates who think that even the smallest inconvenience to get a firearm is unconstitutional. The fact that this OP even exists shows the disconnect from reality in many gun rights supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/32 "2012-12-25T12:18:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Yet we tolerate all sorts of 1st Amendment abuses. A-holes burning our flag, Nazis marching, all sorts of inflammatory speech. None of these things are abuses of free speech. Abuses of free speech are things that often can have legal consequences – defamation, invasion of privacy, fraud, copyright infringement, incitement to riot, disclosure of national security secrets, industrial espionage, … ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/33 "2012-12-25T14:08:37Z")
Call me crazy, but it seems to me that exercising your First Amendment rights does not risk the lives of the rest of the population. If I burn a flag, it affects you not a whit (well, except perhaps if you breathe in the smoke). If I insist that I have a “right” to own a gun that can fire off 100 rounds in 10 seconds, then I’m endangering everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/34 "2012-12-25T15:48:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Call me crazy, but it seems to me that exercising your First Amendment rights does not risk the lives of the rest of the population. Oh, it most certainly can. The First Amendment allows for the dissemination of hate speech, which can trigger widespread violence. And the legions of parents who aren’t vaccinating their kids because they’ve read on the Internet that vaccines cause autism are endangering the health of everyone, not just their own kids’. The First Amendment has blood on it. But then, that’s true of every one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights except possibly the Third. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/35 "2012-12-25T16:10:27Z")
I don’t recall the principal party of 2nd Amendment defenders in arms when rights were trampled on in the name of fighting terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/36 "2012-12-25T22:13:03Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > There’s a difference in wording. The First Amendment forbids laws “abridging” freedom of speech, etc. The Second says the right to bear arms shall not be “infringed”. - for the purposes of a well regulated militia. Cannot that be interpreted to mean that folks with a military style weapon must belong to the militia. (Which today would be the National Guard and the Reserves.) Perhaps in order to be “well regulated” each person with an assault rifle needs to attend a meeting once a month and a two week summer encampment every year. TIC - but I wonder if Scalia’s literalist thoughts would go in this direction. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/37 "2012-12-26T00:11:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve always felt strongly that our rights under the Constitution must be protected. I get furious whenever a Christmas display is yanked out of a school. But I understand the importance of separating Church and state. I just hope that the 2nd Amendment is also respected and protected with the same ideological fervor. Actually, if the first amendment were respected with the same fervor as gun right nuts have for guns, we never would have had Christmas displays in the schools to get yanked in the first place. In the real world, the first amendment is far more abused and ignored than the second. On top of that, what the NRA and its supporters think the second amendment means is clearly not what it was intended to mean, court decisions bought and paid for by gun lobbyists be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/38 "2012-12-26T00:38:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Simply because they believe the First Amendment is a good idea and the Second is not. That is all, really. The appropriate response would then be a new amendment, not to subvert one on the books. We’ve made updates before. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/39 "2012-12-26T01:05:22Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I don’t recall the principal party of 2nd Amendment defenders in arms when rights were trampled on in the name of fighting terrorism. You mean you don’t remember the NRA objecting to attempts at restricting the ability of people on the no-fly list or foreign nationals from buying guns in the US? To be fair to the NRA, they’ve always been consistent when it comes to the Second Amendment and more than willing to take on their political allies. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017/40 "2012-12-26T17:14:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Second Amendment mentions the right to keep and bear arms, but nobody thinks that means you can own a missile or a bomber… You _can_ own a bomber. [Here](http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/) is a private organization that owns _several._ There are also plenty of individuals that own one. No license required. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-1st-amendment-absolute-and-people-want-to-limit-the-2nd-amendment/645017.md?page=3)