# Why is the Catholic Church against Freemasonry? Can there be peace? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234 "2005-02-28T01:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/21 "2005-02-28T14:40:12Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > **Friar Ted** , I won’t comment on the supposed oaths and penalties, for what should be obvious reasons. As if they haven’t been public since the early 1800s, broadcast on TV & revealed by Sherlock Holmes (Christopher Plummer) in the 1970s film MURDER BY DECREE (using the same Jack the Ripper theory as FROM HELL). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/22 "2005-02-28T14:55:18Z")
I have a book entitled **Secret Societies** by Norman Mackenzie that was published about forty years ago in the US and Britain , in which he reprints a 19th century political cartoon (By Thomas Nast?) that has the Pope and a Freemason holding banners reading “You’re a Humbug!” and “You’re Another”, which _implies_ some heat between the two groups at that time. I’m not familiar with the reason the Catholic Church is anti-Mason (I’ll take your word for it being the secretive nature of the Society, but with reservations. No doubt the MacKenzie book touches on this, but it’s been too long since I read it.), but I’ve heard that the Catholics started up the Knights of Columbus (as noted above) as a rival organization . Or, perhaps, as William Poundstone put it in **Big Secrets** (where he reveals the Secret Initiation Ceremony), as a “consolation prize for the Good Boys who didn’t join the Masons”. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/23 "2005-02-28T17:04:36Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > As if they haven’t been public since the early 1800s, broadcast on TV & revealed by Sherlock Holmes (Christopher Plummer) in the 1970s film MURDER BY DECREE (using the same Jack the Ripper theory as FROM HELL). I don’t particularly care that the’ve been revealed; I am bound by my oath and I will not discuss them. I would far rather discuss why the principles of Masonry are seen as being in opposition to anyone’s religion. Actually, I wouldn’t, because there will always be that disagreement and there is no point in furthing the argument. It just strikes me as very sad that some demoninations feel theirs is the only way to go and therefore anything that even seems to contradict them is evil, false, anti-Christ and what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/24 "2005-02-28T17:12:37Z")
At least two members of my former small ELCA Lutheran Church are Freemasons. Both have served on the Church Council, commune regularly etc., so the restriction in the LBW must refer only to worship practices. My Masonic friends tell me that their rituals are in no way intended to be a proxy for worshhip, so it’s not exactly a big deal for them. Masonic ritual is ritual, Lutheran Worship is worship, and the two need never clash. One of the Masons told me that, upon moving to our city years ago, he had been visited by the Pastor of the local LCMS church. Seeing a throw-pillow embroidered with the Masonic seal on my friends couch, the Pastor had informed my friend that he could not commune in the church if he remained a Mason. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/25 "2005-02-28T21:37:17Z")
The early 20th century [Catholic Encyclopedia: Freemasonry](http:// newadventorg) article lays out the traditional conflicts between the RCC and Freemasonry over a 200 year period. Based on its date (1908 - 1920, a time when the Church was militantly defensive, particularly in the U.S.), it provides citations for antagonism that characterized the earlier relationship as well as pointing out some of the religious bases for some of the Catholic reservations. [This Masonic article notes that there is no current anti-Catholic bias](http://www.masonicinfo.com/anticatholic.htm) within Freemasonry, but is even-handed enough to recognize some of the statements that could have given rise to that impression. This article on a Masonic site lays out the [ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH LAW REGARDING FREEMASONRY](http://www.io.com/~janebm/churchlaw.html) up to the present. (Note that this article seems to indicate tht my anecdote (which occurred in the early 1970s) may have been overtaken by Cardinal Ratzinger’s desire to return the Church to 1 **8** 70). ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/26 "2005-02-28T21:48:48Z")
Sheesh! Everyone knows that the Freemasons are really the Knights Templar, which are hiding the bones of Jesus’ wife, Mary Magdelene. Likewise, everyone knows that the RCC is dedicated to hiding the truth about Jesus’ connubial bliss. It’s in Revelations, people!! Sua ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/27 "2005-02-28T21:49:11Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I don’t know of anything that would indicate Masonry was ever “oficially” anti-Catholic; that is to say that I don’t believe there was ever any kind of policy established by Masonry as a whole in opposition to Catholicism. > > I believe that membership in the Knights of Columbus is restricted to Catholics. I also believe that the organization has a very strong religous bias. I don’t know either of these things for certain, since I am not a member. If I am right, you might contrast the KofC with Masonry by remembering that membership in Masonry is NOT restricted to any one group or religion and that Masonry, in spite of the BS to the contrary is NOT religously oriented. As I’ve said many times before, discussions of religion are prohibited on Masonic Lodge premises, at least here in the USA. I have no doubt that the Kof C is a worthy organization and I don’t denigrate it in the least. I’ve never heard a member of the K of C call it a version of Masonry, though. Well, not officially, just at the time they were founded, most of the members were more anti-Catholic on a “snob” level, more like, “Oh, those silly superstitious fish-eaters!” That’s all. I don’t believe they were ever established to combat Catholicism, or that it was an official policy-just that they weren’t too fond of the church. And I realize they’re not religious, either. That and you have the obvious suspicion of “secret societies” and all that paranoia. As for the KoC, basically, there’ not “based on”, the Masons, but that it’s a Catholic fraternity that some refer to as the “Catholic Masons”. Mostly they seem to do charitable work related to religious issues (the anti-abortion movement, for example, or Catholic missions in your developing countries) Personally, I think the church should probably give it up by now, but then, there’s a lot of things that they should give up-which really don’t pertain to this thread. BTW, does the Orthodox church forbid membership? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/28 "2005-03-01T13:55:43Z")
I dug out my copy of MacKenzie’s book last night. It’s actually an edited compendium, with the Freemasonry chapter written by Mervyn Jones. The editorial cartoon I remember is the right vintage, but it’s from the British magazine _Punch_, not from Thomas Nast. There really was heat on both sides, but it wasn’t a religious or a philosophical dispute. It was political. We tend to forget that until the 19th century the Pope had temporal authority, as well as spiritual authority, and he controlled the Papal States in the center of the Italian peninsula, effectively cutting Italy in half. Garibaldi and his followers wanted a united secular Italian state, and they naturally opposed the Pope. Garibaldi and his bunch were also Freemasons. Some went further in their statements against the Pope. “Grand Master Lemmi (presumably of the Italian FreeMasons)declared: ‘We have applied the Chisel to the last refuge of superstition, and the Vatican will fall beneath our vivifying Mallet.’ Masons, he urged, should work ‘to scatter the stones of the Vatican, so as to build with them the Temple of the Emancipated Nation.’” So there really was an opposition between the Freemasons in Italy and the Vatican. It’s against this backdrop that you have to see the encyclicals against Masonry. There were _ten_ of them between 1821 and 1902. (Pope Clement XII had issued an encyclical condemning the Masons in 1738, which Jones also sees as political). The encyclicals didn’t limit the condemnation to Italian Freemasonry, and so the conflict spread. “Since the end of World War II, the warfare between the Church and Freemasonry has been largely a thing of the past…” declares Jones, but the ban on Catholics joining the Masons is still there. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/29 "2005-03-01T20:57:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > \BTW, does the Orthodox church forbid membership? [Yup.](http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/ocet22.htm) (Disclosure) I used to be Greek Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/30 "2005-03-01T22:28:39Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, does the Orthodox church forbid membership? Quite vigourously. One cannot be a Mason and an Orthodox Christian in good standing with the Church. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/31 "2005-03-01T22:39:15Z")
Addendum: Here is the 1933 Statement on Freemasonry issued by the Church of Greece – it may clarify some of the reasons why Freemasonry is so opposed. > [@](#): > > "Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: “Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;” Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe! > > "Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is “as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun.” > > "Thus Freemasonry is, as granted, a mystery-religion, quite different, separate, and alien to the Christian faith. This is shown without any doubt by the fact that it possesses its own temples with altars, which are characterized by prominent teachers as “workshops which cannot have less history and holiness than the Church” and as temples of virtue and wisdom where the Supreme Being is worshipped and the truth is taught. It possesses its own religious ceremonies, such as the ceremony of adoption or the masonic baptism, the ceremony of conjugal acknowledgement or the masonic marriage, the masonic memorial service, the consecration of the masonic temple, and so on. It possesses its own initiations, its own ceremonial ritual, its own hierarchical order and a definite discipline. As may be concluded from the masonic agapes and from the feasting of the winter and summer solstices with religious meals and general rejoicings, it is a physiolatric religion. > > "It is true that it may seem at first that Freemasonry can be reconciled with every other religion, because it is not interested directly in the religion to which its initiates belong. This is, however, explained by its syncretistic character and proves that in this point also it is an offspring and a continuation of ancient idolatrous mysteries which accepted for initiation worshippers of all gods. But as the mystery religions, in spite of the apparent spirit of tolerance and acceptance of foreign gods, lead to a syncretism which undermined and gradually shook confidence in other religions, thus Freemasonry today, which seeks to embrace in itself gradually all mankind and which promises to give moral perfection and knowledge of truth, is lifting itself to the position of a kind of super-religion, looking on all religions (without excepting Christianity) as inferior to itself. Thus it develops in its initiates the idea that only in masonic lodges is performed the shaping and the smoothing of the unsmoothed and unhewn stone. And the fact alone that Freemasonry creates a brotherhood excluding all other brotherhoods outside it (which are considered by Freemasonry as “uninstructed”, even when they are Christian) proves clearly its pretensions to be a super-religion. This means that by masonic initiation, a Christian becomes a brother of the Muslim, the Buddhist, or any kind of rationalist, while the Christian not initiated in Freemasonry becomes to him an outsider. > > "On the other hand, Freemasonry in prominently exalting knowledge and in helping free research as “putting no limit in the search of truth” (according to its rituals and constitution), and more than this by adopting the so-called natural ethic, shows itself in this sense to be in sharp contradiction with the Christian religion. For the Christian religion exalts faith above all, confining human reason to the limits traced by Divine Revelation and leading to holiness through the supernatural action of grace. In other words, which Christianity, as a religion of Revelation, possessing its rational and superrational dogmas and truths, asks for faith first, and grounds its moral structure on the super-natural Divine Grace, Freemasonry has only natural truth and brings to the knowledge of its initiates free thinking and investigation through reason only. It bases its moral structure only on the natural forces of man, and has only natural aims. > > "Thus, the incompatible contradiction between Christianity and Freemasonry is quite clear. It is natural that various Churches of other denominations have taken a stand against Freemasonry. Not only has the Western Church branded for its own reasons the masonic movement by numerous Papal encyclicals, but Lutheran, Methodist and Presbyterian communities have also declared it to be incompatible with Christianity. Much more has the Orthodox Catholic Church, maintaining in its integrity the treasure of Christian faith proclaimed against it every time that the question of Freemasonry has been raised. Recently, the Inter-Orthodox Commission which met on Mount Athos and in which the representatives of all the Autocephalous Orthodox Churches took part, has characterized Freemasonry as a “false and anti-Christian system.” ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/32 "2005-03-01T22:58:23Z")
I’ve been an Ancient Free & Accepted Mason for slightly more than 24 years. I am a 32nd Degree Mason and am a Past Master of my home lodge. Not once in all that time has another Mason called me over and said, “Hey, here is an ancient secret of the universe but don’t tell anyone.” I’ve never been exposed to any mysteries and I’ve never heard any Mason say, “You know, we really are a Naturistic set of guys, aren’t we?” I have been invited to attend services in any number of churches by fellow Masons, all of whom happen to have been members of one or the other Christian churches. As I recall, the OP asked why the Catholic Church opposed Masonry and that question has been answered several times. All this other stuff is pretty much extraneous. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/33 "2005-03-01T23:18:13Z")
However, **LouisB** , it is helpful to have access to the various explanations, justifications or rationalizations that are offered for the hostility of (small-o)rthodox Christian Churches towards the Freemasonry, as an insight to the point-of-view. To use an analogy from a more recent clash of worldviews, there’s got to be more to it than just “they hate our freedom,” even if that’s what it looks like. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/34 "2005-03-02T13:40:38Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > However, **LouisB** , it is helpful to have access to the various explanations, justifications or rationalizations that are offered for the hostility of (small-o)rthodox Christian Churches towards the Freemasonry, as an insight to the point-of-view. To use an analogy from a more recent clash of worldviews, there’s got to be more to it than just “they hate our freedom,” even if that’s what it looks like. It may be helpful to some, but one should bear in mind that the (small-o)rthodx (I really like that) Christian Churches have an agenda. They are so convinced that their view is the only right and proper one that they are willing to condem anyone and everone who might differ with them in even the slightest degree and that their willingness to condem does not apply only to Masonry. Speaking as an individual and not as a Mason, it is my opinion that organized religion is repsponsible for more grief, trouble, and strife in this world than any other group that has ever existed. I held that belief long before I became a Mason and expect to hold it until I die. That has nothing to do with the subject of debate in this thread, though, I am just throwing it out there. I still believe the OP’s question has been answered and all this other stuff is just stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/35 "2005-03-02T15:02:39Z")
Well, I was raised Catholic and born in the last year of Vatican II. I only spent two years in Catholic school and never heard anything about Masons there, nor have I ever heard an anti-Masonic sermon or anything. I was told (by my Mom, who grew up in a strict school in the 50s) that Masonry was forbidden because its teachings were anti-Catholic–were never told which ones exactly. Besides, we had the Knights of Columbus. My grandpa was a Grand Knight by the time he died in 2001, very active and popular, and it was mostly guys sitting around drinking beer and playing poker and watching movies with the neighborhood (pre-VCR days). Their numbers were dwindling. But when Grandpa died (the day after 9/11, which made for a weird funeral) about twenty of them came in, in feathered hats, capes, and swords, and did a very touching ceremony for him. It was all in English except for a Paternoster and not at all secretive, just sort of a military-style memorial service. Never heard Grandpa talk against the Masons either. And the very Catholic Speaker of the House, Billy Bulger, smiled along with the rest of us at the ceremony as a bunch of MA Masons, with aprons and top hats (and their other clothes too), ceremonially re-laid the cornerstone of the State House in 1998 for its bicentennial. The Masons were part of the ceremony with other groups, they have a nice big lodge right on Boylston Street with beavers on the facade, and nobody thinks twice. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/36 "2005-03-02T15:45:49Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > .I held that belief long before I became a Mason and expect to hold it until I die. I agree with everything you said, and you were able to state it far better than I have. However, I was wondering, I have heard that in order to become a mason, you had to declare in public to believe in a god. Do you believe in a god, and not organized religion, or did you just swear that you believed when you in fact don’t. Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/37 "2005-03-02T23:37:44Z")
The Catholic Church used to hold a lot of atavistic doctrines – e.g., that the Jews were to blame for Jesus’ death – that were jettisoned by the Vatican II Council. Did they change the Church’s views on Freemasonry too? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/38 "2005-03-03T01:00:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Catholic Church used to hold a lot of atavistic doctrines – e.g., that the Jews were to blame for Jesus’ death – that were jettisoned by the Vatican II Council. Did they change the Church’s views on Freemasonry too? No offense, but did you bother to read the entire thread? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/39 "2005-03-03T01:22:39Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > At least two members of my former small ELCA Lutheran Church are Freemasons. Both have served on the Church Council, commune regularly etc., so the restriction in the LBW must refer only to worship practices. One abbreviation too many for me. What’s LBW? Incidentally, this is GD, not GQ, so I think it’s quite appropriate that discussion should broaden. No one has anything to hide? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234/40 "2005-03-03T02:31:05Z")
**L** utheran **B** ook of **W** orship. I agree with **Genghis Bob** ’s assessment; I think it is more about preserving the solemnity of the church service. Lutheran funerals are about **Jesus** and His promise of Eternal Life. If you’ve ever been to one, you would understand why they don’t leave any room for the pageants and productions of other organizations. Personally, I think that ideally funerals should reflect the person who is being buried; they should give the attendees some insight into who this person was. But that’s just my opinion and no one is forcing me or anyone else to be Lutheran or have a Lutheran funeral. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-catholic-church-against-freemasonry-can-there-be-peace/292234.md?page=3)