# Why is the city of Firenza called Florence in English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885 "2007-02-27T16:30:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/1 "2007-02-27T16:30:08Z")
While looking at my photo gallery of pictures taken during my trip to Northern Italy a year ago, this question struck me again as it did during my stay in Florence. Most Italian cities have English equivalents that make sense: Roma = Rome Venezia = Venice Bologna = Bologna Milano = Milan Torino = Turin Napoli = Naples Except Firenza. Firenza is known as Florence. Why is there such a difference between the Italian and English names of the city? Or perhaps the un-politically-correct question is why do the Italians call their city Firenza when the founding name (according to Wikipedia) is Florentia? I assume there is a factual answer here, but I’ve been unable to unearth it. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/2 "2007-02-27T16:36:58Z")
[QUOTE=Algernon] Why is there such a difference between the Italian and English names of the city? Or perhaps the un-politically-correct question is why do the Italians call their city Firenza when the founding name (according to Wikipedia) is Florentia? I assume there is a factual answer here, but I’ve been unable to unearth it. Anyone know? [/QUOTE] The quick and dirty answer: Latin L after consonants normally turned into an I in Italian. Latin TI also normally yields Z (or ZZ) in Italian. These sound changes from Latin manifested differently in French and English (“Florence” looks like a name borrowed from French … I could be wrong about that). But in Italian, it essentially went from Florentia \> Fiorenza \> Firenza. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/3 "2007-02-27T16:40:13Z")
We got it from the French. Here’s a thread I started on the larger subject: [Italian city names in English that are not from French](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357420). It was originally \*Florentia \*in Latin, and that’s probably how the name got into French while the local dialect near the city changed over time to make _Firenze_. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/4 "2007-02-27T16:59:14Z")
You know, sometimes people complain here about questions being asked that could be found online with a little research. I’ve never made that complaint – and this question of mine is a perfect example. I spent about 10 times as much time fruitlessly trying to find the answer online as it did to get the answer directly from my fellow Dopers. Thank you **bordelond** and **John Mace**. Excellent answers. I’m grateful I stumbled onto the SDMB five years ago – questions like this no longer have to keep me awake at night. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/5 "2007-03-01T07:31:55Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] But in Italian, it essentially went from Florentia \> Fiorenza \> Firenza. [/QUOTE] As a footnote to this question, it may be of interest to football _aficionados_ that Firenze’s team is known as ACF _Fiorentina_. The club was founded in 1926 via the merger of two clubs, one of which was Club Sportivo _Firenze_. Their stadium was known as Comunale di _Firenze_ until the early 1990s. The club effectively went bankrupt in 2002 but was almost immediately reformed as _Florentia_ Viola. The following year it reassumed the original name of _Fiorentina_. Altogether I find this a strange sequence of nomenclature. It does seem that the club will do anything to avoid being called _Firenze_. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/6 "2007-03-01T10:12:07Z")
There’s a gap in the story here. Whilst the original Roman name was Florentia and the current name is Firenze, inbetween it was known as Fiorentina (as in the football club). Fiorentina is therefore regarded as the old name of the city (as in ‘ye olde cite’) and would have been the name used when English tourists first embarked on the Grand Tours of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth centuries. Fiorentina to Florence is actually a pretty minor jump, certainly no more dramatic than from Napoli to Naples. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/7 "2007-03-01T10:28:46Z")
It’s Firenze by the way, not Firenza. Florencia in Spanish, to toss another one to the mix. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/8 "2007-03-01T14:56:58Z")
We might also note Livorno, rendered “Leghorn” in English, and hence the breed of chicken that originated there. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/9 "2007-03-01T15:56:31Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] We might also note Livorno, rendered “Leghorn” in English, and hence the breed of chicken that originated there. [/QUOTE] So the Italian version of the large chicken would be Fogiorno Livorno? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/10 "2007-03-01T16:54:38Z")
Of course. But, somewhat paradoxically, this particular chicken lays Eggs Florentine. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-city-of-firenza-called-florence-in-english/393885/11 "2007-03-02T14:10:06Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] It’s Firenze by the way, not Firenza. [/QUOTE] My mistake. > [@Chez Guevara](#): > > But, somewhat paradoxically, this particular chicken lays Eggs Florentine. Heh, heh. 😛 > [@SanVito](#): > > Fiorentina to Florence is actually a pretty minor jump, certainly no more dramatic than from Napoli to Naples. I seems like a major jump to me. I think what jars my brain, and I’ll include my family too for they also scratched their heads, is the “i” to “L” migration. Or vice versa I guess since the original name was Florentia. If it were Florence compared to Florentina (or even Florenze), it’d never have caused a second thought. **bordelond** explained the crux of my puzzlement: “Latin L after consonants normally turned into an I in Italian.”