# Why is the Cross Worshipped? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825 "2013-06-01T00:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/121 "2013-06-05T19:45:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I was comparing sects that are currently being practiced. Sorry 99 schools then. Edit- On Wikipedia at least. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/122 "2013-06-05T19:46:17Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > Sorry 99 schools then. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/123 "2013-06-05T19:49:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Cite, please? > **[Schools of Buddhism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_sects#Therav.C4.81da_subschools)** > > The schools of Buddhism are the various institutional and doctrinal divisions of Buddhism which are the teachings off buddhist texts. The schools of Buddhism have existed from ancient times up to the present. The classification and nature of various doctrinal, philosophical or cultural facets of the schools of Buddhism is vague and has been interpreted in many different ways, often due to the sheer number (perhaps thousands) of different sects, subsects, movements, etc. that have made up or curre... Count. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/124 "2013-06-05T19:52:41Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > 56 Denominations versus 146 Schools in 1 minute on wikipedia Wikipedia. You were saying? How in the hell did you get only 56 denominations of Christianity from my link? ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/125 "2013-06-05T19:55:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What I’m seeing is some people loading the question in such a way that it can never be answered. The question is one that would be nearly impossible to answer without a very narrow set of criteria. For example take Lutheranism. Do you count them once as a subset of Christianity, or are you counting every denomination on this [list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lutheran_denominations)? If you count them all then there’s more types of Lutherans than major schools in Hinduism. But a non-Lutheran would be able to attend any of those denominations without noticing any difference between services. Even a devout member of one denomination would have little trouble attending any of those services, finding only minor differences between the new church and their own. Compare that to a Hindu tradition like [Smarta](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartism). It’s entirely possible to have two orthodox practitioners, acknowledged both by outsiders and each other to be faithful members of that type of Hinduism, who don’t even share a common deity. Are they still counted as one group? ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/126 "2013-06-05T19:55:56Z")
I counted the number of denomination on the"List of Denominations" page. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/127 "2013-06-05T20:00:00Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > I counted the number of denomination on the"List of Denominations" page. There are 97 different Baptist sects alone-it looks like you are using a broad definition of “denomination” for your cite and an extremely narrow definition for [my cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Denominations) ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/128 "2013-06-05T20:01:30Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > The question is one that would be nearly impossible to answer without a very narrow set of criteria. For example take Lutheranism. Do you count them once as a subset of Christianity, or are you counting every denomination on this [list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lutheran_denominations)? If you count them all then there’s more types of Lutherans than major schools in Hinduism. But a non-Lutheran would be able to attend any of those denominations without noticing any difference between services. Even a devout member of one denomination would have little trouble attending any of those services, finding only minor differences between the new church and their own. > > Compare that to a Hindu tradition like [Smarta](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartism). It’s entirely possible to have two orthodox practitioners, acknowledged both by outsiders and each other to be faithful members of that type of Hinduism, who don’t even share a common deity. Are they still counted as one group? This is the kind of thing I’m talking about Czarcasm. Blunt declarations of fact without evidence fall apart without any agreed upon definitions of the question. A proper study would at least have internally consistent meaning. You’re just stating opinion and getting called on it ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/129 "2013-06-05T20:02:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There are 97 different Baptist sects alone-it looks like you are using a broad definition of “denomination” for your cite and an extremely narrow definition for [my cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Denominations) Totally. Why wouldn’t I? It’s more than you were willing to do with prodding. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/130 "2013-06-05T20:04:32Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > This is the kind of thing I’m talking about Czarcasm. Blunt declarations of fact without evidence fall apart without any agreed upon definitions of the question. A proper study would at least have internally consistent meaning. You’re just stating opinion and getting called on it And I’ve shown at least superficial evidence for my position. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/131 "2013-06-05T20:06:02Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > Totally. Why wouldn’t I? It’s more than you were willing to do with prodding. Why wouldn’t you use two different standards? Because it wouldn’t be the Christian thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/132 "2013-06-05T20:11:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why wouldn’t you use two different standards? > > Because it wouldn’t be the Christian thing to do? Just because I’m a minister doesn’t mean I’m Christian. Superficial evidence for what? Without defined terms none of what you say has any meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/133 "2013-06-05T20:14:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I do not know whether “Roman Catholic” even occurs in other languages, so the above simply provides a potential history leading to its selection. My opening statement indicates its history in English. It does, but it’s not the usual name as it is in English. Spanish for example has references to the Catholic Church being _cristiana, romana y apostólica_ (Christian, Roman and Apostolic), but it’s rarely used by Catholics, and when we use it it’s more commonly to refer to individual believers than to the Church itself; in theory at least the Roman bit in Spanish refers to the rite, which is not followed by every member of the RCC, rather than to its current see - and even if you take it as referring to the see, the RCC was the same Church during the periods in which its see was in Avignon or in dispute; that “Roman” bit is quite irrelevant compared with the “Catholic” part. Normally in Spanish or Catalan I’d speak about _la iglesia católica_ or _l’esglesia católica_, respectively, no need to tack any additional adjectives. But when I run into some proselitist asking “are you a Christian?”, my response is likely to be “yep! Christian, Catholic, Roman and Apostolic!” - pisses them off no end. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/134 "2013-06-05T20:15:04Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > Just because I’m a minister doesn’t mean I’m Christian. > Superficial evidence for what? Without defined terms none of what you say has any meaning. Then substitute “intellectually honest” for “Christian”. If you count the sects on my cite the same way you counted them on yours, what numbers do you come up with? ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Reverend\_Meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Meade)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/135 "2013-06-05T20:34:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then substitute “intellectually honest” for “Christian”. > If you count the sects on my cite the same way you counted them on yours, what numbers do you come up with? First, they’re both you’re cites, remember? Second, you’re ignoring the point smiling bandit, Oldeb and I are making in an attempt to “win”. If you really want to prove it you can count it yourself. I only counted in the first place to annoy you because you’re refusal to understand the conversation annoyed me (hence the double standard, if I was being serious I wouldn’t have done that). The point isn’t who has the most listing on Wikipedia. If someone else want’s to point me toward a real source on comparative factionalism between religions I’d be interested. Czarcasm, I’m done with this. If you want to declare “victory” go ahead. Knowledge is not a contest. Have fun missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/136 "2013-06-05T21:31:10Z")
**Czarcasm** and **Reverend Meade** , take this hijack (of an already silly thread) somewhere else. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/137 "2013-06-05T21:34:31Z")
Deleted due to being written while tomndebb was writing his Mod post. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/138 "2013-06-05T22:24:52Z")
> [@Reverend\_Meade](#): > > Sorry 99 schools then. ♫ Take one down and pass it aro-- wait are we doing this, or what? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/139 "2013-06-05T22:42:09Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825/140 "2013-06-05T22:53:08Z")
Oh. Okay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-cross-worshipped/659825.md?page=8)