# Why is the current Queen of England Elizabeth II? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421 "2007-10-12T02:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/1 "2007-10-12T02:36:05Z")
…and not Queen Elizabeth III? Y’know, [this one.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom) Her [mother](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bowes-Lyon) held the title Queen Elizabeth I. [But so did Henry’s daughter.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_England) Can someone help the confuddled Yankee out? I’m sure there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation. Why wasn’t the Queen Mum known as Elizabeth II and the current queen as Elizabeth III? ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/2 "2007-10-12T02:38:50Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] …and not Queen Elizabeth III? Y’know, [this one.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom) Her [mother](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bowes-Lyon) held the title Queen Elizabeth I. [But so did Henry’s daughter.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_England) Can someone help the confuddled Yankee out? I’m sure there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation. Why wasn’t the Queen Mum known as Elizabeth II and the current queen as Elizabeth III? [/QUOTE] Only queens regnant get numbers. EII’s mother was only a queen consort; her husband was the reigning monarch. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/3 "2007-10-12T02:38:59Z")
The Queen Mum was never the ruler. Her husband was king. Wives’ names don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/4 "2007-10-12T02:57:20Z")
By the way, her [official title](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4676.asp) is “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith”. The last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page102.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/5 "2007-10-12T03:05:55Z")
When did she stop being Empress of India (or whatever the official title)? Any other realms that have been removed from her official title lately? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/6 "2007-10-12T03:11:08Z")
My guess would be when India got its independence. When was that, 1946? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/7 "2007-10-12T03:15:41Z")
She’s never been the Empress of India, since [India became independent in 1947](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Independence), five years before she ascended to the throne. Victoria was the only Empress of India during British rule; Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, and George VI were the only Emperors. Other countries that ceased to be realms - hmm - well, South Africa became a republic in the 50s. I think Fiji is currently a republic in name, although under military rule. Any of the Commonwealth countries that originally had her as head of state, but have since become republics would be removed from her official titles. Note that she has different official titles in each Commonwealth realm. The one I cited earlier is the one she uses in the U.K. In Canada, the [Royal Styles and Titles Act](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/R-12///en?page=1) provides that her styles and titles in Canada are “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.” I assume other realms, like Australia, have similar provisions which put the name of the realm in her styles and titles. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/8 "2007-10-12T03:21:25Z")
[QUOTE=Q.N. Jones] Only queens regnant get numbers. EII’s mother was only a queen consort; her husband was the reigning monarch. [/QUOTE] Ah, so queen regnant = ruler\* of the country and queen consort = wife of the ruler of the country. So the current Elizabeth is only the second queen \*regnant \*. Got it. Thanks! \*“Ruler” in the broadest possible sense, of course. I’m aware the “ruling” is strictly ceremonial these days. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/9 "2007-10-12T03:23:57Z")
IIRC her mother was the last Empress of India… off to wiki or someplace… A ha! [1948](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_India). ETA- ah, hell… got screwing around on Wiki and took longer than I planned… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/10 "2007-10-12T03:31:05Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/11 "2007-10-12T03:31:59Z")
Sorry - in my post I was referring to Empress Regnant, not Empress Consort. If you include Empress Consort, then yes, George VI’s wife was the last Empress. ---
**Author:** ![Aholibah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Aholibah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aholibah)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/12 "2007-10-12T03:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Ah, so queen regnant = ruler\* of the country and queen consort = wife of the ruler of the country. So the current Elizabeth is only the second queen \*regnant \*. Got it. Thanks! [/QUOTE] She’s the second Queen _Elizabeth_ regnant. There have been other queens regnant of England – Victoria, for example, leaps to mind, as does the aforementioned Queen Anne. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/13 "2007-10-12T03:33:55Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Ah, so queen regnant = ruler\* of the country and queen consort = wife of the ruler of the country. So the current Elizabeth is only the second queen \*regnant \*. Got it. Thanks! \*“Ruler” in the broadest possible sense, of course. I’m aware the “ruling” is strictly ceremonial these days. [/QUOTE] And usually both the queen dowager (the widow of the king) and the queen mother (the king’s widow _and_ the mother of the new king/queen) are simple known as “Queen _N_” with no actual mention of the words dowager or mother. **Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon** was only styled “Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother” because “Queen Elizabeth” by itself would be too easily confused with her daughter. Had Elizabeth II chosen to reigh under one of her other names (as Mary III for example) her mother would have been know as “Queen Elizabeth”. She was also the last Empress of India and Queen of Ireland as both countries became republics during her husband’s reign ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/14 "2007-10-12T03:38:00Z")
[QUOTE=Aholibah] She’s the second Queen _Elizabeth_ regnant. There have been other queens regnant of England – Victoria, for example, leaps to mind, as does the aforementioned Queen Anne. [/QUOTE] Gah. I knew that, really I did. :smack: Is late. Must go bed now night-night. (Can you tell I had three toddlers running around today?) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/15 "2007-10-12T03:41:30Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Had Elizabeth II chosen to reigh under one of her other names (as Mary III for example) her mother would have been know as “Queen Elizabeth”. [/QUOTE] Could the current Queen have chosen _any_ name as a regnal name? Anastasia, perhaps? Or Maureen? Janet? Kimiko? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/16 "2007-10-12T03:48:36Z")
The picture of the Queen Mother when she was a little girl is striking. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Queenmum27.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Queenmum27.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/17 "2007-10-12T03:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Could the current Queen have chosen _any_ name as a regnal name? Anastasia, perhaps? Or Maureen? Janet? Kimiko? [/QUOTE] It would be unheard of for a British monach to reign under a name not given at baptism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/18 "2007-10-12T06:38:37Z")
There was another Queen Regnant: William III and Mary II were _joint Sovereigns_ of England and Ireland. MaryII was not just a “consort”. Note Mary **II**. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/19 "2007-10-12T06:52:33Z")
To further confuse matters, if Prince Charles becomes king he would be King Charles III _if_ he chooses to go in that direction, but he could also if he so desired be King George VII (since it’s one of his given names) or he could forego all of his given names and be King Henry IX or King Stephen II or King Jinglebottoms I. Elizabeth’s father, Prince Albert, became King George VI upon his accession just as his grandfather, also Prince Albert (the son of Victoria and her Prince Albert) had become Edward VII upon his. (George VI’s brother and predecessor Prince David became Edward VIII.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421/20 "2007-10-12T07:23:25Z")
And to make things even _more_ confusing there’s an argument current among Scottish Nationalists (and maybe in Northern Ireland too for all I know) that she should in fact be referred to as Elizabeth I, being the first Elizabeth to be queen of the United Kingdom (an entity which did not exist at the time of Elizabeth I of _England_) You can tell these people from their habit of referring to her heir, James as “James I and VI” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-current-queen-of-england-elizabeth-ii/422421.md?page=2)