# Why is the Government ignoring illegal immigration issues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348 "2012-06-26T14:59:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/21 "2012-06-26T16:40:01Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If we actually wanted to stop illegal immigration at the Mexican border, why can’t we? Why couldn’t the Army using patrols and drones monitor the border and respond as the coyotes come across? Because of the Posse Comitatus Act. > [@](#): > > 1. Jobs. I know that illegal immigration supporter claim that these are jobs that no citizen will take but that is circular. If the jobs were required to pay minimum wage, maybe part of the 15% of American workers that are unemployed/underemployed would take them. But that’s not really the issue is it? When Sheriff Arpaio raided a politician’s office and arrest some workers that were illegal immigrants, there was outrage about racism and playing politics. Lost in the noise was the fact that these workers were illegally hired which means either the politicians office knowingly broke the law or that Everify broke down. No one on either side seemed to care about that part. If the jobs were required to pay minimum wage those industries would be uncompetitive. Do you want to start importing all our food? > [@](#): > > 1. Constitutional issues. As “residents”, illegal immigrants use up social and educational programs. They are counted in the apportionment of Representatives and so give more political power to states with large illegal immigrant populations. The issue of anchor babies has never really been addressed even though its ben obvious since 1898 that a Contitutional amendment is the only avenue if the government wanted to end anchor babies. Voting laws, put here because of the Supemeacy Clause, do not require anyone to actually prove that they are a citizen in order to register to vote. You simply need to state you are a citizen and I know cases of illegal immigrants voting. Think about it for a second. If all of the illegal immigrants (and legal ones too) wanted to walk in today and register to vote and are willing to lie about being a citizen, there is nothing anyone could do to stop them. What “social programs” do illegal immigrants use up? What cases of illegal immigrants voting do you know of? > [@](#): > > 1. Programs that worked. Anyone remember the Bracero program that ended in 1964? There are ways to have immigrants come in and work legally. Obama issued work visas to a bunch of illegal immigrants, but that more of ignoring the problem with illegal immigration rather than a solution - which was the exact same problem with Reagan’s amnesty program too. The Bracero program didn’t “work.” It just documented a few thousand immigrant workers. > [@](#): > > 1. Charging Mexico (or other country of origin). Some say we can’t logistically deport 24 million people and that may be true. But why can’t we charge these countries for the costs associated with supporting THEIR nationals here illegally and paying to incarcerate them when they break the law. [According to this](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393960/US-gives-billions-foreign-aid-worlds-richest-countries-asks-borrow-back.html), we give Mexico over $300M in foreign aid. Why so much when apparently they have over 12 million citizen receiving social/educational services here and sending money home. I’m sure similar arguments can be made for many Central American countries too. We don’t give Mexico money because we like them. We give them money to shore up their law enforcement programs as part of our drug policy. Less money means more cartels and more drugs. > [@](#): > > What do you think the government should do to enforce immigration law? If you think they should ignore the law, then explain why you think the government does not have an obligation to enforce a law that has a major impact on the US. What it does now: deport criminals, prosecute coyotes, and now worry too much about the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/22 "2012-06-26T16:42:15Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I hear this all the time. Might be true for all I know, but I never see any proof. I would love to see the evidence. Well, you could go to a California vegetable field and check to see how many American citizens you find working there. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/23 "2012-06-26T16:44:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Well, you could go to a California vegetable field and check to see how many American citizens you find working there. This illustrates my point. I can’t go to California right now. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/24 "2012-06-26T16:45:15Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I hear this all the time. Might be true for all I know, but I never see any proof. I would love to see the evidence. > **[TAKEOURJOBS.ORG](http://www.takeourjobs.org/)** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/25 "2012-06-26T16:45:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Charging Mexico (or other country of origin). Some say we can’t logistically deport 24 million people and that may be true. But why can’t we charge these countries for the costs associated with supporting THEIR nationals here illegally and paying to incarcerate them when they break the law. Should the United States government also be charged for illegal acts committed by American citizens in another country? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/26 "2012-06-26T16:48:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Was that so hard? For me or for you? 😃 I remembered the story but didn’t look it up again. You’re looking on the internet for an answer but not from an unbiased poster or source. It’s a personal choice - but I tend to verify a story myself rather than rely on information from someone who I questioned in the first place. I’ll try to do better in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/27 "2012-06-26T16:48:59Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > This illustrates my point. I can’t go to California right now. You can’t you go to California because Americans won’t work for minimum wage jobs? I think you need to show your work on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/28 "2012-06-26T16:56:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [http://www.takeourjobs.org/](http://www.takeourjobs.org/) There might very well be proof somewhere at that site that Americans won’t work hard labor jobs for minimum wage, but quite frankly I don’t want to dig through it to find out. Could you point me to a specific link? And I reiterate, I think it could indeed be the case, I just never see any evidence along with such claims. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/29 "2012-06-26T16:57:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can’t you go to California because Americans won’t work for minimum wage jobs? > > I think you need to show your work on that one. To be clear, I meant you made a statement implying that Americans won’t do hard work for minimum wage, but didn’t show any evidence. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/30 "2012-06-26T16:57:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can’t you go to California because Americans won’t work for minimum wage jobs? > > I think you need to show your work on that one. Do you really think “go to California” is a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/31 "2012-06-26T17:00:06Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 1. Patrols. If we actually wanted to stop illegal immigration at the Mexican border, why can’t we? Why couldn’t the Army using patrols and drones monitor the border and respond as the coyotes come across? It’s a whole lot of area to cover and the cost to patrol the border effectively might not be cost effective. Drones are a relatively new development and it’s entirely possible we’ll start seeing their use on the border more and more though. They can cover a wide area and are relatively inexpensive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/32 "2012-06-26T17:08:23Z")
You want to completely eradicate illegal immigration? Easy: Make it legal. We still get our cheap vegetables, the workers aren’t breaking any laws, everyone’s happy. We depend on these people being here; it’s only honest to admit it. Alternately, you could turn the US into such a hellhole that nobody would ever _want_ to come here. That’d work, too, but it might not be the greatest idea. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/33 "2012-06-26T17:10:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It’s a whole lot of area to cover and the cost to patrol the border effectively might not be cost effective. Drones are a relatively new development and it’s entirely possible we’ll start seeing their use on the border more and more though. They can cover a wide area and are relatively inexpensive. Yes, I’d guess there is a good chance it won’t be cost effective, but of course I’m no expert on the subject. Exactly how would drones be used though? To lookout for people coming across the border? Wouldn’t you still need a huge border patrol force to be able to respond adequately? I just don’t see how, no matter how counter-intuitive it may be, that we can stop people coming over the border by trying to stop them _at_ the border. You have to get rid of the motivation of illegal immigrants to come here, whether that means improved economic conditions in their home countries, or stopping their incentive to work in the US. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/34 "2012-06-26T17:12:10Z")
10% of the asparagus crop is rotting in the fields this year in my state, yet you don’t see “Americans” lining up to take these jobs. [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018528816\_asparagus26m.html](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018528816_asparagus26m.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/35 "2012-06-26T17:20:06Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > 10% of the asparagus crop is rotting in the fields this year in my state, yet you don’t see “Americans” lining up to take these jobs. > > [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018528816\_asparagus26m.html](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018528816_asparagus26m.html) This link is a perfect example of why I believe it _might_ be true that, in general, Americans won’t work such jobs for the minimum wage. But it offers no _proof_ as to why enough workers couldn’t be found to bring in the whole crop. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/36 "2012-06-26T17:24:19Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > This link is a perfect example of why I believe it _might_ be true that, in general, Americans won’t work such jobs for the minimum wage. But it offers no _proof_ as to why enough workers couldn’t be found to bring in the whole crop. Where in there story does it say it only pays $9.04 an hour? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/37 "2012-06-26T17:30:42Z")
The military could provide some monitoring and technical assistance but could not be a part of response teams to make arrests of those crossing the border. That has to be done by law enforcement personnel in accordance with restrictions of the [Posse Comitatus Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act). Of course if there was the political will to do so then the Legislative branch could amend that law and the Executive branch could enforce it. :rolleyes: The US does not require outbound immigration clearance. It would cost money to implement and inconvenience Americans and visitors alike. And without outbound checks it really is hard to determine with any certainty who has overstayed a visa. I don’t think Americans would support outbound immigration checks. Someone would scream that Big Brother is monitoring where they are traveling to and it is too intrusive. Never mind that immigration gets at least some of that information upon the citizen’s return to the States. The US counts illegal immigrants in the census and that affects government spending and apportionment of representatives. The US does not count Americans living abroad for the purposes of apportionment even though they can vote and thus have representation. :smack: So from a politicians point of view, a larger population (whether illegal immigrants or citizens doesn’t matter) gets more federal dollars for his home district. More illegal immigrants may even gain a state an additional congressman or two resulting in more political clout for the state. Neither party cares that Americans living abroad don’t count towards representation because expats are too dilute a group overall to have much political clout. They vote in every congressional district and there just are not enough in any one district to carry much power. They pay taxes but don’t consume much in the way of resources so few demands are made on their representatives. If instead [American expats](http://aaro.org/) were treated as their own state they would be the [18th most populous state](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population) with 9 representatives in the House. Anchor babies could be addressed. There just isn’t the political will to push it through Congress. It only takes a few Senators to bog it down. An amendment could be tackled by state convention but then its something like 37 or so state senates that could bog it down. That there would be a flood of stateless babies if the US removed _jus soli_ just isn’t true. Most would receive the citizenship of their parent by _jus sanguinis_. The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in Article 15, asserts a universal right for a person not to be stateless. That is a strong incentive for a solution to be worked out. Granting citizenship to a baby if he/she would otherwise be stateless is enough to cover the concerns over the relatively few that might otherwise slip through the cracks. Europe is not overflowing with stateless persons despite no European country permitting unrestricted _jus soli_ citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/38 "2012-06-26T17:39:50Z")
In Georgia last year, they passed a strict, Arizona-style anti-immigrant law - and had crops rotting in the fields. They then tried having prisoners do the work - and 2/3 of the prisoners walked off the job the first day. [Www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57511.html](http://Www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57511.html) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/39 "2012-06-26T17:47:31Z")
Migrant workers are skilled workers, there is a market for them and they are essential to our country. Unemployed Americans won’t take the jobs nor are they skilled enough to do the work quickly. I would say that the best thing you could do to prevent illegal immigration is provide a viable legal alternative for temp workers. Harvest work is paid piecemeal, if you are quick it pays much better than minimum wage but it is very hard work. That will never happen due to a xenophobic fear of brown people though. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/40 "2012-06-26T17:49:42Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Where in there story does it say it only pays $9.04 an hour? I see your point. If you didn’t mean to imply that this was evidence that Americans don’t want to work hard jobs for minimum wage, then please accept my sincere apology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348.md?page=3)