# Why is the Government ignoring illegal immigration issues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348 "2012-06-26T14:59:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/101 "2012-06-29T14:50:43Z")
What you think you know might not be true. A[record number](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/race-multicultural/lost-in-detention/record-number-of-illegal-immigrants-deported-in-2011/)of illegal immigrants were deported in 2011. This happened despite the fact that ,thanks to the weak economy and poor job prospects, The current illegal immigration rate is[lowest since 1971](http://www.talkradionews.com/audio/2012/04/25/napolitano-illegal-immigration-rate-lowest-since-1971.html). ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/102 "2012-07-01T02:38:31Z")
1. Seeking hispanic votes. 2. Big business lobbying for cheap labor. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/103 "2012-07-01T11:18:40Z")
Also, I think that illegal immigration and the “underground” economy are linked. Basically, we have large numbers of people who work and are paid, but pay no income or SSI taxes. For roofers, farmers, day care operators, untaxed, off-the-books labor is much cheaper. That is why landscape companies no longer employ American teenagers-its much cheaper for them to hire illegals. The owner of the business makes big profits, but when an illegal worker gets injured, and gets treatment at a public hospital, everybody who pays taxes absorbs the costs. For this reason, I have always advocated a high national sales tax, with rebates given back when filing. This is the only way to get the underground economy to pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/104 "2012-07-01T11:30:22Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Also, I think that illegal immigration and the “underground” economy are linked. Basically, we have large numbers of people who work and are paid, but pay no income or SSI taxes. For roofers, farmers, day care operators, untaxed, off-the-books labor is much cheaper. That’s not true; they pay income and SSI taxes, and taxes in general. And they get much less in return for it than citizens. [Relevant story](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ex=1270353600&partner=kmarx&pagewanted=all&position=). > [@](#): > > While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year’s surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration’s projections. > > _\_ > > It is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrant workers pay taxes. But according to specialists, most of them do. Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID’s to get a job. > > Currently available for about $150 on street corners in just about any immigrant neighborhood in California, a typical fake ID package includes a green card and a Social Security card. It provides cover for employers, who, if asked, can plausibly assert that they believe all their workers are legal. It also means that workers must be paid by the book - with payroll tax deductions. This is just another attempt to blame the victim. _We_ are the ones exploiting _them_; illegal immigrants aren’t exploiting us. We like to to pretend they are because it lets us feel morally superior while we prey upon them. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/105 "2012-07-01T12:25:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not true; they pay income and SSI taxes, and taxes in general. And they get much less in return for it than citizens. [Relevant story](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ex=1270353600&partner=kmarx&pagewanted=all&position=). > > This is just another attempt to blame the victim. _We_ are the ones exploiting _them_; illegal immigrants aren’t exploiting us. We like to to pretend they are because it lets us feel morally superior while we prey upon them. So how does it “benefit” us when Americans cannot get jobs? And most illegals send back remittances to their home contries-exactly how does this benefit us? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/106 "2012-07-01T12:54:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So how does it “benefit” us when Americans cannot get jobs? America won’t take the jobs illegal aliens typically take. It would be against the law for them to do so; they have civil rights. Americans would have to be paid more and work under much better, much safer conditions. And you couldn’t have the INS show up right before payday and deport all your workers instead of paying them. > [@ralph124c](#): > > And most illegals send back remittances to their home contries-exactly how does this benefit us? It doesn’t; the taxes they pay and the cheap products created by essentially slave labor do benefit us however. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/107 "2012-07-01T15:36:02Z")
This is one issue in which I’m hardcore Republican: I think they should all be forcibly moved and taken back their country of origin. I make exceptions for the children of illegal immigrants (i.e. they had no choice when they came here) but their parents, sadly, must go back home. It’s not a Mexican/Hispanic thing at all for me. It’s a non-American thing. Go home or get to the back of the line. The argument that we need this labor doesn’t wash with me. To say that there aren’t people willing to do backbreaking work for minimum wage is just absurd. If farmers can’t afford to pay minimum wage to their workers then the obvious choice should be to increase federal subsidies, increases prices, or some combination of both. It should not, however, be an option to hire a boat of indentured slaves to sidestep federal labor and minimum wage laws. It’s ridiculous and boggles the mind. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/108 "2012-07-01T17:07:28Z")
Yes, but after the 23 million or so undocumented people are returned to their country of origin, what do you think will happen to our economy? What do you think will happen to the housing market? There will be a crash in price so devastating that the majority of people will be underwater unless you own your home already. Basically it will prevent the worker mobility that the american economy is so famous for. In the end, illegals are illegals because we dont want them to be documented. Our economy is in need of this labor pool. Our economy needs workers to sustain the agribusiness of our country, and it needs to be competitive with the agribusiness of other countries. If labor prices jumped to $50/hr then all our farmers would go bankrupt from competition from other countries. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/109 "2012-07-01T21:46:13Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > It’s simple. Follow the money. Governments condone illegal immigration because it produces cheap labor. It’s not about requiring the minimum wage. This is back breaking labor we are talking about. Americans aren’t going to do it for minimum wage. They are going to require significantly more which will drive up wages for unskilled labor across the board. That puts profit margins at risk and since our politics are so corrupt that translates into significant political pressure to keep illegal labor. I don’t know about unskilled labor, but those are not the only jobs undocumented immigrants are taking. I know of several skilled carpenters who are having trouble finding work because the Mexicans will work cheaper. I have also witnessed the look of frustration on a ER nurses face as she asks “I don’t suppose she has a Social Security number, does she?” as she does triage on a non-English-speaking woman. I have had a 5th grade teacher tell me of a parent-teacher conference where a Mexican man refused to teach his son not to sexually harass female students because “that’s my culture”. I have been called a “puta” by Mexican construction workers while working a freight elevator at a construction site. No, idiot, I’m not a whore - if I was I wouldn’t be stuck in this elevator with your non-bathing ass. I have nothing against immigration; my best friend is third generation Italian. I don’t know why the federal government is ignoring the problem - and it IS a problem. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/110 "2012-07-01T21:48:04Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Yes, but after the 23 million or so undocumented people are returned to their country of origin, what do you think will happen to our economy? What do you think will happen to the housing market? There will be a crash in price so devastating that the majority of people will be underwater unless you own your home already. Basically it will prevent the worker mobility that the american economy is so famous for. > > In the end, illegals are illegals because we dont want them to be documented. Our economy is in need of this labor pool. Our economy needs workers to sustain the agribusiness of our country, and it needs to be competitive with the agribusiness of other countries. If labor prices jumped to $50/hr then all our farmers would go bankrupt from competition from other countries. Are these illegal immigrants buying houses where you are? Interesting. Here two of them will rent a house and have 10 or 12 guys living in it. It’s usually trashed when they leave, according to a real estate agent I know. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/111 "2012-07-01T23:43:06Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > This is one issue in which I’m hardcore Republican: I think they should all be forcibly moved and taken back their country of origin. I make exceptions for the children of illegal immigrants (i.e. they had no choice when they came here) but their parents, sadly, must go back home. It’s not a Mexican/Hispanic thing at all for me. It’s a non-American thing. Go home or get to the back of the line. It IS a “Mexican/Hispanic thing”; there _is_ no “line” for them. _Legally_ immigrating from Mexico is virtually impossible; we _want_ them here, but we want them here _illegally_ so we can abuse them. > [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > I don’t know about unskilled labor, but those are not the only jobs undocumented immigrants are taking. I know of several skilled carpenters who are having trouble finding work because the Mexicans will work cheaper. > > I have also witnessed the look of frustration on a ER nurses face as she asks “I don’t suppose she has a Social Security number, does she?” as she does triage on a non-English-speaking woman. > > I have had a 5th grade teacher tell me of a parent-teacher conference where a Mexican man refused to teach his son not to sexually harass female students because “that’s my culture”. > > I have been called a “puta” by Mexican construction workers while working a freight elevator at a construction site. No, idiot, I’m not a whore - if I was I wouldn’t be stuck in this elevator with your non-bathing ass. > > I have nothing against immigration; my best friend is third generation Italian. “Some of my best friends are X”? That’s a classic. And I note how fast this segued from “illegal immigrants” to “Mexicans”; in my experience the “illegal” part is only the excuse people use to justify their dislike of anyone who looks brown enough to be “Mexican”. People here in California just wave their hands at random brown people walking the street and go into rants about how awful illegal immigrants are. And yes, that non-English speaking woman probably _does_ have a SS number (real or fake) and probably pays taxes, illegal immigrant or not. The government doesn’t really care as long as they get their cut. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/112 "2012-07-02T01:15:34Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Yes, but after the 23 million or so undocumented people are returned to their country of origin, what do you think will happen to our economy? What do you think will happen to the housing market? There will be a crash in price so devastating that the majority of people will be underwater unless you own your home already. Really? They all own their own homes here? They easily got mortgages and put their names on deeds? Come on. Rent might go down (which might be a good thing) and maybe the value of rental properties, but not home values. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/113 "2012-07-02T01:16:40Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > This is one issue in which I’m hardcore Republican: I think they should all be forcibly moved and taken back their country of origin. I make exceptions for the children of illegal immigrants (i.e. they had no choice when they came here) but their parents, sadly, must go back home. It’s not a Mexican/Hispanic thing at all for me. It’s a non-American thing. Go home or get to the back of the line. I generally agree, but I’m a hardcore Democrat. You can just believe what you believe without accepting all the other ridiculous bullshit, you know. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/114 "2012-07-02T01:28:28Z")
My wife doesn’t want to live in the USA, she just wants to visit my parents with me and our son. The US embassy won’t give her a tourist visa because she is married to a US citizen, and the mother of a US citizen. They say the only way for to come to the US is permanent residency, because if they give her a tourist visa she will just illegally immigrate because of her overwhelming ties to the US. BUT since she has expressed that she doesn’t want to go live in the USA they might deny her the permanent residency apparently. US immigration law is FUCKED, TOTALLY FUCKED period. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/115 "2012-07-02T02:31:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It IS a “Mexican/Hispanic thing”; there _is_ no “line” for them. _Legally_ immigrating from Mexico is virtually impossible; we _want_ them here, but we want them here _illegally_ so we can abuse them. > > “Some of my best friends are X”? That’s a classic. And I note how fast this segued from “illegal immigrants” to “Mexicans”; in my experience the “illegal” part is only the excuse people use to justify their dislike of anyone who looks brown enough to be “Mexican”. People here in California just wave their hands at random brown people walking the street and go into rants about how awful illegal immigrants are. And yes, that non-English speaking woman probably _does_ have a SS number (real or fake) and probably pays taxes, illegal immigrant or not. The government doesn’t really care as long as they get their cut. I admit I dislike Mexican immigrants who do not want to assimilate into American culture. I don’t like being called a “puta” or given the once over walking down the street. I want my friends in the construction industry to be able to get jobs, where they will do a decent job. I’m not going to get started on the quality of the “cheap” labor on the last job site I worked on, except to say the punch list was looong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/116 "2012-07-02T03:07:52Z")
You’ve never been called a bitch or checked out by a white guy? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/117 "2012-07-03T01:11:16Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > This is one issue in which I’m hardcore Republican: I think they should all be forcibly moved and taken back their country of origin. I make exceptions for the children of illegal immigrants (i.e. they had no choice when they came here) but their parents, sadly, must go back home. It’s not a Mexican/Hispanic thing at all for me. It’s a non-American thing. Go home or get to the back of the line. > > The argument that we need this labor doesn’t wash with me. To say that there aren’t people willing to do backbreaking work for minimum wage is just absurd. If farmers can’t afford to pay minimum wage to their workers then the obvious choice should be to increase federal subsidies, increases prices, or some combination of both. It should not, however, be an option to hire a boat of indentured slaves to sidestep federal labor and minimum wage laws. It’s ridiculous and boggles the mind. > > - Honesty Amen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/118 "2012-07-03T01:53:46Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Really? They all own their own homes here? They easily got mortgages and put their names on deeds? > > Come on. Rent might go down (which might be a good thing) and maybe the value of rental properties, but not home values. I never said they all own their homes. A small fraction of them do, the majority of them rent. But the rental market is deeply tied to the general real estate market. If a sudden loss of rental housing demand is introduced into the system, rent prices will plummet. Rental property owners will not be able to cover their morgages and will default. Homeowners will try to sell their homes once they realize that it’s a sucker’s game to pay a morgage when renting is such a better investment. Real estate prices then plummet as everybody tries selling their houses, unsuccessfully. Some people walk away from their mortgages. Bank stocks plummet as investors see a wave of foreclosure losses. The general stock market begins a dip, companies lay off people, people cant pay their mortgages, people who do get new jobs across the country cant sell or buy properties because the whole market has been thrown. Into complete lockdown. Seriously where have you been in the last 5 years? This is basics macroeconomy principles that everyone should be familiar with. So, long story short, no, mass deportation of illegals would be a tremendously stupid idea that would hurt everyone. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/119 "2012-07-03T02:29:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’ve never been called a bitch or checked out by a white guy? :dubious: I’ve never been called a bitch or a whore by a white guy who didn’t know me\*. I’ve never _seen_ a white guy checking me out as blatantly as Mexican guys do. I’m not saying it’s never happened; I’ve just never caught one at it, except maybe in a bar. Not walking down the street. \*I’ve never been a whore; I can be a bitch when necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348/120 "2012-07-03T12:54:21Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I think they should all be forcibly moved and taken back their country of origin. Okay, but what do you think should be done in the _real_ world? Not to get snarky, you understand, but this is impossible. There is no way to do this with the resources we have, thus another solution will have to be found. > [@](#): > > To say that there aren’t people willing to do backbreaking work for minimum wage is just absurd. I tend to agree. I’ve asked for and looked for proof of that Americans won’t do these hard labor jobs, but haven’t seen the proof yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-government-ignoring-illegal-immigration-issues/626348.md?page=7)