Why is the Government ignoring illegal immigration issues?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@supery00n

The reason Obamacare was passed was in order to initiate a process of regulatory harmonization with Canada’s health care system.

Really. And such a half-assed job of it, too.

I have no confidence the Americans will get a Canadian-style system anytime soon. The various insurance companies will lobby/contribute/SuperPac relentlessly to prevent it.

[cmkeller]

Really Not all that Bright:

That’s not “low hanging fruit.” That’s a politically motivated prosecution.

A guy writes an article saying “I’m knowingly and openly breaking the law,” and to arrest/deport him would be politically motivated?

[supery00n]

@Der_Trihs

That sound you here in the distance is millions of Canadians laughing.

Because Obama is a right winger who didn’t really want to pass anything, but had to be seen as doing something. So he passed a Republican designed program that was designed from the beginning to be a joke and a means of handing money to insurance companies. And they aren’t “diametrically opposed ideologically”; they are the right wing, and the loony right wing. American politics are very narrow.

Oh, please; this is standard conspiracy theory nonsense where even their incompetence is “in reality” evidence of a deep laid plot.

So Obama’s really a right-winger, but he manages to be seen by half of Americans as far left. And we’re in this political situation where two parties who are (objectively) similarly pretty right wing, the difference only in degrees, subjectively viewed as either socialistic or free market radical…and the American voter eats up this manufactured divide?

Wouldn’t you agree that this ability of the government to manufacture such a difference between reality and perception with regard to the two parties and their relation with each other a possible result of the government having a long-range plan that the parties in tacit agreement with, but try to come across as being divided and in opposition to each other in the public arena? If it’s really just a game, and there’s no point to the actual unity in policy, which is so irrational at face value given that Americans will believe that the two parties are indeed different (so why not actually govern in such a way that is clearly different policy-wise too)?, then we just have to accept that the politicians and the public are irrational and contradictory by nature…?

[Der_Trihs]

@supery00n

So Obama’s really a right-winger, but he manages to be seen by half of Americans as far left.

To the Right, most of humanity is “far left”. A quarter of Republicans think Obama may be the Antichrist. Republicans are on the whole not rational people who live in the real world.

@supery00n

Wouldn’t you agree that this ability of the government to manufacture such a difference between reality and perception with regard to the two parties and their relation with each other a possible result of the government having a long-range plan that the parties in tacit agreement with, but try to come across as being divided and in opposition to each other in the public arena?

No, because “the government” didn’t manufacture it. And the Republicans are dominated by frothing loonies who can’t tolerate the slightest disagreement with dogma, they are rabidly divided from the Democrats.

@supery00n

If it’s really just a game, and there’s no point to the actual unity in policy, which is so irrational at face value given that Americans will believe that the two parties are indeed different (so why not actually govern in such a way that is clearly different policy-wise too)?, then we just have to accept that the politicians and the public are irrational and contradictory by nature…?

They are irrational and contradictory.

[LonesomePolecat]

@Jas09

I think the government has a history of not enforcing immigration law because, by and large, immigration (even illegal immigration) is (and has been) a good thing for the US.

Ptooey. The Democrats expect to build a power base among the immigrants, both legal and illegal, and the Republicans want cheap labor. Neither party gives a rat’s ass about the impact our current levels of immigration have on citizens, and certainly not the working class.

[Bryan_Ekers]

A government manufacturing something? That’s commie-pinko talk, stealing jobs from hardworking free Americans!!

[Der_Trihs]

@LonesomePolecat

Neither party gives a rat’s ass about the impact our current levels of immigration have on the people who are already here.

Now, I think that the Democrats probably do give a rat’s ass. Human, no; but rat? Sure.

[Little_Nemo]

@Fiddle_Peghead

To be clear, I meant you made a statement implying that Americans won’t do hard work for minimum wage, but didn’t show any evidence. That’s all.

My point was that these jobs exist and Americans aren’t working them. There’s no reason employers would take the risk, however minimal, of hiring illegal immigrant workers if they had the alternative of hiring legal American workers.

[BigAppleBucky]

Why is the Government ignoring illegal immigration issues?

The USA deported 396,906 individuals last year, an all time record.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-18/us/us_immigrant-deportations_1_removals-deportations-effective-immigration-enforcement?_s=PM:US

The US border patrol has grown to 21,000 agents.
http://mexidata.info/id3348.html

That link also describes the reductions in arrests and seizures of drugs at the border and describes those things as evidence of effective controls.

And, of course, it was the Republicans who obstructed the Dream Act.

[Voyager]

@cmkeller

I hope this isn’t a hijack, but I was considering an illegal immigration thread after reading the most recent issue of Time magazine. The cover story is written by an “out” illegal immigrant who is visible and active. He’s practically dangling himself out there, daring the INS to deport him. Why don’t they go for this low-hanging fruit?

And speaking of fruit, re: the subject of illegal immigrant labor being necessary for farm work - if we need them to work at jobs that Americans can’t or won’t do, why can’t the H1B visa program be applied to them? I realize that asparagus-picking doesn’t meet the currently-defined standards of that category, but the essence of the situation is the same. Do the politicians have a particular objection to letting American employers make hires from other nations if they’ve proven they can’t find American workers to do those jobs?

Would you increase the limit on H1B visas, which almost always get filled, or would you trade engineers and programmers for farm workers? H1Bs also require a reasonable commitment and expense, while farm work is seasonal. I can’t imagine a farmer who wouldn’t rather take his chances then go for H1B, even if it were possible.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@Der_Trihs

To the Right, most of humanity is “far left”. A quarter of Republicans think Obama may be the Antichrist. Republicans are on the whole not rational people who live in the real world.

Er…That’s according to an online poll.

Online polls are useful for wiping your ass if you’re all out of toilet paper but not much else.

They’re unscientific and extremely unreliable.

[Simplicio]

How do you wipe your ass with an online poll? Isn’t it…like…online?

[Jas09]

Ctrl + P

[Ibn_Warraq]

@Simplicio

How do you wipe your ass with an online poll? Isn’t it…like..online?

Via the way Jas09 suggested.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Martin_Hyde

Without some more powerful citation than the act, I’ll have to call BS on this one.

<snip>

I would argue that even after 1878 our military forces did actually patrol the borders. We don’t have militarized borders with Canada or Mexico right now, but we have since the act was passed in 1878 used military forces to patrol the Mexican border, we still use the military to patrol our borders at sea and etc. So I am highly skeptical that the PCA of 1878 means we can’t use the military to essentially patrol a border wall–that’s actually a pretty traditional military function in fact. It’s only a quirk of our relatively good relations and low threat level from our two land neighbors that we don’t have a militarized border.

Sorry, I missed this before. The point is that the PCA prohibits the use of the military to enforce domestic law. It doesn’t say they can’t be sent to the border to prevent an invasion, but that’s different. This NPR article touches on the distinction. I’ll have a look for some law on the issue for you.

@cmkeller

A guy writes an article saying “I’m knowingly and openly breaking the law,” and to arrest/deport him would be politically motivated?

Yes. We have lots of other people who admit to being here illegally who are already in federal custody and we don’t deport most of them.

We also don’t prosecute musicians and stand-up comics who openly admit to ongoing drug use. Why not?

@BigAppleBucky

The USA deported 396,906 individuals last year, an all time record.

Excellent point. For all that the right accuses Obama of being soft on immigration (and people in this thread accuse the Democrats of encouraging illegal immigration to develop a voting bloc :rolleyes:) Obama has deported more people per year than any president in history.

[magellan01]

@elucidator

You got to your local supermarket, to the produce aisle. You see “Iceberg Lettuce, $5 each”. Any more questions?

Actually, yes. Where did you get $5.00 from? It seems quite high since labor accounts for only 10% of the cost of produce. So, if a head of lettuce costs $1.99 and you double the labor costs, the cost of that head of lettuce goes from $1.99 to $2.19.

[magellan01]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

http://www.takeourjobs.org/

That is a disingenuous argument. Americans don’t want to do those jobs for the wages illegals are willing to do them for. The wages are artificially suppressed. There exists a wage at which Americans would be happy to fill those jobs. And THAT is what the job is really worth.

[magellan01]

@rat_avatar

Migrant workers are skilled workers, there is a market for them and they are essential to our country. Unemployed Americans won’t take the jobs nor are they skilled enough to do the work quickly.

I would say that the best thing you could do to prevent illegal immigration is provide a viable legal alternative for temp workers.

Harvest work is paid piecemeal, if you are quick it pays much better than minimum wage but it is very hard work.

That will never happen due to a xenophobic fear of brown people though.

Tell me, what is it about being white, or a brown or black American citizen that makes one unable to acquire this amazing skill?

[magellan01]

@Little_Nemo

My point was that these jobs exist and Americans aren’t working them. There’s no reason employers would take the risk, however minimal, of hiring illegal immigrant workers if they had the alternative of hiring legal American workers.

You can’t be serious. If an employer can save money, many will take that risk. And do.

[rat_avatar]

@magellan01

Tell me, what is it about being white, or a brown or black American citizen that makes one unable to acquire this amazing skill?

Good strawman there boss, did you harvest the straw to make it yourself?

It is because they had come to think of it as beneath them.

The lack of labor will probably lead to more automation.