The Batman mythos has become just that: a mythos. By this point, I’d argue that Batman and his universe are more of a legend than a pop-culture fad. Hence, the story can be told over and over in different forms, while the essential heart of the story is the same. You’ve got a 5-year old kid who watches his parents get killed in front of him. He decides to become a dark avenger of justice. He models himself on a Bat. He picks up a young acrobat along the way. (Insert joke here.) He has a loyal butler. He has a twisted rogue’s gallery. He fights a twisted clown, the symbol of insanity in the order Batman seeks to preserve.
Hence the success of Batman in the “Elseworlds” imprint: the basic story can be easily retold in different settings. Hence the reason Batman has remained more or less unchanged in 60 years (hey, notice Bruce Wayne hasn’t aged?).
Why’s the Joker not dead? Because he’s part-and-parcel of the mythos. He’s a necessary part of the Batman legend. Kill him, and there’s something missing from the story.
Also, at the end of “Noman’s Land,” Batman and every police officer give Gordon permission to kill Joker after he killed Gordon’s wife. Gordon pulled a gun on the Joker, and Batman was completely willing to just turn the other cheek. Of course, Gordon couldn’t do it, so he shot the Joker in the knee, which he just took as a big fucking joke.
“I’ll never walk agai…ohhhh, I get it. Like Barbara. Good one Comissioner. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!”
Batman soooooo did not give him permission to kill the Joker. I don’t have the issue with me right here but during the scene in question Batman is desperately trying to convince Gordon not to do it. I will quote the exact dialogue when I can pull the book out later.
Sort of already beaten to the punch. In Kingdom come Joker is shot to death on his way to prison after killing Lois Lane and many workers at the daily planet. Superman had captured him but an upstart hero Magog offed him while the Joker was being hauled off in handcuffs.
Also Joker has been executed once in an early issue of Batman. “The Joker walks the last mile” (I think) He was sentenced and put to the chair only to be revived by a special serum which allowed him to be free as he had already paid for his crimes.
He has been Blown up, electrocuted, fallen from great hights, shot, crashed, drowned etc. etc.
Lets face it you can’t keep a bad guy down.
PS it is not face paint, the Joker’s hair, skin and ruby lips are the result of taking a swim in toxic chemicals.
He also NEVER I repeat NEVER Killed Bruce Waynes Parents (Thank you very much Mr. Burton!)
Anyone tell I’m a Joker fan?
also, Gotham City is actually located in New Jersey, not Massachusetts. Trust me on this; being from New Jersey, that fact stood out to me, as did all the ridicule from non-Jersey friends whenever I share that fact.
<warning: Massive thread hijack. Go about your business>
Nude? Jesus Christ…they didn’t have the Joker do anything ELSE, did they? :eek:
I think there’s a Far Side panel like that…It opens in a war-ravaged city, but with the legs of a GIGANTIC dead Godzilla-type monster sticking in from offscreen. A bunch of reporters are standing around an old farmer-type guy carrying a double-barreled shotgun, who’s saying “…Then I thoughts to myself, ‘Dang! Why don’t someone just SHOOT the varmint?’” I always liked that one.
Ranchoth
(I guess the multi-issue manga-style graphic novel “The Joker slips on a bar of soap in the shower and breaks his neck” is out of the question, isn’t it?)
All these posts about the Joker being crazy miss the point. Sure the guy is looney tunes, just like many real murderers. But the legal point is that you have to be unable to tell the difference between right and wrong to be found legally insane. Just from the posts above, along with many of the actual Joker stories, it is clear that he does know the difference between right and wrong. He likes doing wrong. As per the Killing Joke, he is aware of the difference but it no longer bothers him.
Arkham Asylum, the most easily escapable criminal insane holding facility ever built, is a device in the books. It wouldn’t work as well in the real world. At least, I hope not.
I’m sure Joker is legally insane. Does he think what he does is wrong? No. He sees everything from a very skewed version of reality.
He sees Batman as an enemy not because Batman is good, but rather because Batman represents an obsticle in the way of Joker’s “fun”. He hates Batman for being to Grim and loves him for the challenge he offers.
Think about it, what are the Joker’s motivations for his actions? Greed, anger, passion, revenge, really don’t play heavily into his actions (except possibly the watershed “Joker’s 5 way Revenge” and even then the ex gang members are killed for a percieved slight though it semmed not one of them had turned on him.)
Joker kills without reason, until he makes one up. Think of the Joker Fish story in which he kills a clerk for not giving him a patent even though the guy had no power to do so.
Minor things become his motivation. He decideds to kill and then before doing so he justifies it. For example look at all of his own gang members he casually offs for not laughing, or not smiling enough, or for asking a question, or for not being in the right place at the right time. (Even in the Movie Bob is shot for no reason.)
The only reason that may be applicable is He kills because he believes he is showing the world how absurd it is… how nuts is that?
Does anyone else know about this? It’s been a little over a month since I last read it, but I’m pretty sure Batman just turned his back to Gordon as an example of “I’m not going to stop you.” If he did oppose Gordon killing the Joker, he didn’t “desperately” try and stop him. But I could be wrong.
I read the same story (The Killing Joke) and took it to mean that Batman recognizes that he and the Joker are, essentially, the same person. Different actions, same reason. Or something like that.
No need to look too far into this, as there are a couple of reasons.
(1) The Joker is caught and imprisoned a lot less than you think. Usually the Batman stops him from committing crimes, but doesn’t always catch the Joker.
(2) In the current mythology, the Batman is perceived by the population at large as an urban myth, not the Caped Crusader of the bygone days. As an urban myth, I would suspect his evidence against the Joker would not stand up in court.
(3) When the Joker is caught, he almost always ends up in Arkham Asylum, because he’s been declared insane. You can’t execute the insane in this world, so I doubt it’s legal in Gotham City.
(4) The few times the Joker has been in prison, he’s been shown to be an extraordinary badass. When threatened by a fellow con in “Last Laugh”, he takes the con’s harmonica and shoves it so far up his ass it requires surgery to remove it (I’m not making this up).
Jeeze I have been out of the Batman loop too long…’
So Batman is now more in the shadows (Excellent as it should be, he is more effective being perceived to be a supernatural being) and the Joker shoves musical instruments up peoples… uh…
Hmmm… I know killing is a drepraved horrible crime but that seems …wow… just too evil.
So At which point has the shift occured, I mean I know crisis revamped the origins but has there been a new reset in the last five years or so?
Nope, your memory was in fact correct. I was wrong. Way wrong as it turns out. Hmmmm. On the good side, this thread is making me re-read my entire collection of No Man’s Land era issues, which is always good.
Death In The Family -After killing Robin, Joker becomes the Iranian ambassador to the UN. He tries killing all the delegates, gets shot and is in a helicopter when it crashes.
Thinking that the danger is over, Superman goes to retrieve Batman from the ocean.
On the Joker not staying dead-
Batman "Forget me! Find his body! Find his body!He's not dead unless you find his body!"
On his ability to escape so often-
From Joker's Apprentice (great premise which falls apart in the end for no particular reason)
"He has all kinds of information, like the guard's names and where their children live."
His state of mind-
ibid
'Only Batman and I are real. We created the world as a barrier between our opposites and peopled it for our amusement.'
His past-
From the excelent Killing Joke
"Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"
When DC said the origin in KJ was not definitive, I was pissed. I thought it was a retcon. Now, though, I like it. Who is the Joker? Even he doesn't know. What made him like this? The swim in Axis' toxic waste seems cannon. But again nobody knows what other factors were involved.
