# Why is the Left so afraid of nuclear power? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708 "2010-02-19T22:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/101 "2010-02-22T00:41:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am a liberal. I don’t think nuclear power is evil. I think storing spent fuel in a hundred pools around the country is stupid and dangerous. What is illogical about that? We have a perfectly good disposal site in Nevada (Yucca Mountain), which we cannot use (because certain anti-nuclear forces have decided to block its use). What is logical about that?😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/102 "2010-02-22T01:05:14Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > We have a perfectly good disposal site in Nevada (Yucca Mountain), which we cannot use (because certain anti-nuclear forces have decided to block its use). I am going to need a cite that it is anti-nuclear opposition that killed Yucca Mountain. The [official position of the State of Nevada](http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/yucca/state01.htm)is that it should be shut down: > [@](#): > > Independent public opinion polls during the past decade have consistently indicated that more than two-thirds of all Nevadans do not want a nuclear waste dump in their state, and believe that the State of Nevada should do everything in its power to stop it. > > Nevada’s governor and its entire congressional delegation as well as numerous governments and organizations have expressed opposition to the proposed nuclear waste dump through resolutions and other explicit statements of policy: > [ul] > [li]Nevada Legislature[/li][li]Nevada State Medical Association[/li][li]Nevada Resort Association[/li][li]Nevada State Firemen’s Association[/li][li]Nevada Parent Teachers Association Board of Directors[/li][li]Clark County[/li][li]Cities of Las Vegas, Henderson, Boulder City, Lovelock, Reno, and Sparks[/li][li]Nevada League of Cities[/li][li]Nevada Commission on Tourism[/li][li]Nevada Parent Teachers Association Convention of Delegates[/li][li]Nevada Commission on Nuclear Projects[/li][/ul] Yucca Mountain is kaput because Nevada doesn’t want it, not because of opposition by leftist anti-nuclear groups. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/103 "2010-02-22T01:06:09Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I maintain the energy of the future is not nuclear. Perhaps it is on a drawing board somewhere right now. I just don’t like big ,old time technology like nuclear. You Luddites have to grasp the future . [/QUOTE] I guess if it’s cool that we wait a couple of decades for the magic pony tech to be researched, developed, tested, prototyped, put into production and then scaled up…as long as that’s cool then I suppose a rational argument can be made for waiting. Do you think we can way a couple of decades or a half century or so before the magic ponies start to fly? -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/104 "2010-02-22T01:07:31Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Yucca Mountain is kaput because Nevada doesn’t want it, not because of opposition by leftist anti-nuclear groups. [/QUOTE] And the good folks of Nevada just came to this decision rationally and all on their own? :dubious: Seriously? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/105 "2010-02-22T01:12:53Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > And the good folks of Nevada just came to this decision rationally and all on their own? :dubious: Seriously? > > -XT If you have evidence that the anti-nuclear lobby brainwashed two-thirds of the state, bring it. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/106 "2010-02-22T01:13:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am going to need a cite that it is anti-nuclear opposition that killed Yucca Mountain. The [official position of the State of Nevada](http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/yucca/state01.htm)is that it should be shut down:Yucca Mountain is kaput because Nevada doesn’t want it, not because of opposition by leftist anti-nuclear groups. That list is downright embarrasing. The Nevada PTA! thinks its bad idea. O noes! I am sure the pro nuclear or neutral folks are on that list are fairly uncommon, therefore it IS the anti-nuclear opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/107 "2010-02-22T01:15:48Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > That list is downright embarrasing. The Nevada PTA! thinks its bad idea. O noes! > > I am sure the pro nuclear or neutral folks are on that list are fairly uncommon, therefore it IS the anti-nuclear opposition. So you say. If you have any evidence beyond your own opinion, I’d like to see it. Otherwise, you got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/108 "2010-02-22T01:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] If you have evidence that the anti-nuclear lobby brainwashed two-thirds of the state, bring it. Seriously. [/QUOTE] What would constitute proof in your mind? Since I assume you can Google ‘anti-nuclear movement in Nevada’ and ‘anti-nuclear movement attacks Yucca Mountain’ as easily as I can, and since it’s widely known that much of the focus of the anti-nuclear movement has been against Yucca Mt. in the last several years (since they have managed to kill all new construction, what’s a red blooded frothing at the mouth anti-nuclear fanatic supposed to do these days if not go after the Yucca Mountain project?), your request for a cite is too vague for me to honor it. What constitutes ‘brainwashed’ in your mind? If I can demonstrate that the anti-nuclear movement has been active in Nevada, will that be sufficient proof for you? My guess is the answer is ‘no’ so it seems pointless for me to bother linking evidence showing that. So…what is going to convince you? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/109 "2010-02-22T01:33:30Z")
It is not my responsibility to make your arguments for you. But you are not allowed to just throw out an opinion and expect everyone to buy into it with no statistical support at all. Let me show you how it is done: In 2004, a [poll was commissioned by the State of Nevada](http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/news2004/pdf/nv0410survey.pdf) to gauge the sentiment among Nevadans towards Yucca Mountain. Among the reasons for opposing Yucca Mountain were: Losses to property values for homes and businesses located near shipping routes. 76.4% Damage to Nevada’s reputation as a place to vacation or live. 64.2% Loss of public revenues due to reduced numbers of visitors/tourists 62.2% Economic damage to Nevada’s major industries 61.7% These are not the traditional positions of the anti-nuke crowd. It is clear that opposition is primarily political NIMBYism, not traditional anti-nuke propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![TurboNuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@TurboNuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TurboNuke)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/110 "2010-02-22T01:37:32Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Not only was it a massive disaster at the time, but the plethora of leukemia victims and other victims to cancers caused by the accident shows the huge long term damage of it. There are orphanages and orphanages filled with children still dying of the after effects. Gonna need a cite for this. Chernobyl Heart is a propaganda piece not a cite. The UN investigated this and found a bunch of extra thyroid cancers but other cancers had not increased significantly. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/05/AR2005090501144.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/05/AR2005090501144.html) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/111 "2010-02-22T01:51:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > ]These are not the traditional positions of the anti-nuke crowd. It is clear that opposition is primarily political NIMBYism, not traditional anti-nuke propaganda. Even if that is true, it just means the opposition has some stupid reason OTHER than not understanding the science of nuclear power. At best, you seem to be argueing a point nobody really cares about. Unless you think NIMBYism is an inherently good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/112 "2010-02-22T01:54:19Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I maintain the energy of the future is not nuclear. Perhaps it is on a drawing board somewhere right now. I just don’t like big ,old time technology like nuclear. You Luddites have to grasp the future . So you are GUESSING that the energy of the future is some UNSPECIFIED and currently NON-EXISTENT form of power… …and then calling us names for not dropping everything we currently have in order to embrace this wild assed theory of yours? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/113 "2010-02-22T01:54:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Even if that is true, it just means the opposition has some stupid reason OTHER than not understanding the science of nuclear power. > > At best, you seem to be arguing a point nobody really cares about. I am arguing the point **ralph124c** made, and **xtisme** seems to be defendiing. It is important to them, apparently. I agree, opposition is stupid, but it is a fallacy to lay it at the feet of the anti-nuke crowd. Stupid comes from all sorts of places. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/114 "2010-02-22T02:02:22Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Even if that is true, it just means the opposition has some stupid reason OTHER than not understanding the science of nuclear power. > > At best, you seem to be argueing a point nobody really cares about. Well, I think he is referring to the OP, you know, the one that says that it is the “left” being afraid. I do think that there is a good chuck of the left that is against nuclear power, but once you realize that many polls show that self described liberals barely make 1/3 of the population, then polls showing that the opposition to nuclear stuff is actually running up to about 2/3s means that it is not just the left that is resorting to NIMBY. And yes, I’m a liberal that thinks this NIMBY attitude is stupid; however, I do support more government oversight and intervention on this. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/115 "2010-02-22T02:08:13Z")
I don’t “fear” nuclear power. I simply think it is supremely irresponsible and risky to pursue it when we lack the ability to 1. ensure absolute safety (true, NOTHING is absolutely safe, but if a gas plant explodes dozens or hundreds can die. If a nuclear plant does, the repurcussions are far more serious and widespread) and 2. contain/store the waste for the centuries required to render it safe. Do we actually imagine we can store this stuff for 2 thousand yrs w/o it getting out? Yeah, right. Our civilization will be long gone by then. :rolleyes: And we don’t need it, given the other energy sources available. (solar, wind, bio mass, thermal, magnetism, hydrogen, etc…) One key is decentralization. It wastes incredible quantities of energy to produce it in a central location and transport it. Much more effecient to generate it on site (roof-top solar panels, windmills) and/or REDUCE consumption overall. The pursuit of nuclear power distracts from the need to develop other, safer and more economical sources. (the costs of building, operating, and decomissioning nuclear plants is astronomical, relative to most other alternatives.) IF we can render the generation of nuclear power safe (fail-safe plants) AND come up with a way to securely handle the waste (aside from using it irradiate our food or burying it in the ground…some interesting possibilties including micro-organisms who eat the shit), I would have no issue with it. To date, I still do. I am, in fact, of huge fan of nuclear power. I just think the ideal location for a reactor is where nature put it…the SUN. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/116 "2010-02-22T02:18:08Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > I don’t “fear” nuclear power. I simply think it is supremely irresponsible and risky to pursue it when we lack the ability to 1. ensure absolute safety (true, NOTHING is absolutely safe, but if a gas plant explodes dozens or hundreds can die. If a nuclear plant does, the repurcussions are far more serious and widespread) Again; that is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. > [@InterestedObserver](#): > > 1. contain/store the waste for the centuries required to render it safe. Do we actually imagine we can store this stuff for 2 thousand yrs w/o it getting out? Yeah, right. Our civilization will be long gone by then. :rolleyes: We can store the waste safely and fairly easily. > [@InterestedObserver](#): > > And we don’t need it, given the other energy sources available. (solar, wind, bio mass, thermal, magnetism, hydrogen, etc..) None of those is good enough. “Hydrogen” isn’t even an energy source in the first place! > [@InterestedObserver](#): > > The pursuit of nuclear power distracts from the need to develop other, safer and more economical sources. (the costs of building, operating, and decomissioning nuclear plants is astronomical, relative to most other alternatives.) No, it’s not. The cost of ( and damage caused by ) covering hundreds of miles of land with solar panels, the damage done in the process, and all the facilities needs to build and maintain the things is far more than the cost necessary for a nuclear power plant. The sheer size of the operation alone guarantees it. Solar is neither safer nor more economical. > [@InterestedObserver](#): > > I am, in fact, of huge fan of nuclear power. I just think the ideal location for a reactor is where nature put it…the SUN. 😉 In other words, you want to despoil the land, plunge the nation into economic disaster, all so you can pat yourself on the back about your energy righteousness. Because that is exactly the result that trying to suppl y the country with solar will result in; huge tracts of land ruined, for a power source that isn’t up to the job. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/117 "2010-02-22T02:20:44Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > We have a perfectly good disposal site in Nevada (Yucca Mountain), which we cannot use (because certain anti-nuclear forces have decided to block its use). > What is logical about that?😃 How is sticking this shit in a big hole in the ground (in an earthquake zone to boot) going to solve anything? It is simply NOT responsible to generate tons and tons of highly toxic SHIT that KILLS PEOPLE and dump it in a big hole, hoping it stays put for 2,000 yrs or so (and that there isn’t a flood or a quake in the meantime or that some innocent individual doesn’t stumble upon it in the year 3012.) Or do you honestly think the US government/anyone will still be around and guarding the site until all the waste is inert? :dubious: Face it, it is simply a case of fuck future generation…we got ipods and blue-rays to operate…it’s their fucking problem. I simply can’t get behind that, even if I WEREN’T a mother. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/118 "2010-02-22T02:30:41Z")
> [@InterestedObserver](#): > > How is sticking this shit in a big hole in the ground (in an earthquake zone to boot) going to solve anything? It is simply NOT responsible to generate tons and tons of highly toxic SHIT that KILLS PEOPLE and dump it in a big hole, hoping it stays put for 2,000 yrs or so (and that there isn’t a flood or a quake in the meantime or that some innocent individual doesn’t stumble upon it in the year 3012.) The problem with that argument is that the stuff isn’t nearly as dangerous as the anti-nuke people like to pretend. If a little bit leaks out in a thousand years, it’s not likely to do serious harm. And again; that entire argument simply doesn’t address the harm done by alternatives. Which is standard for the anti-nukers; rant and rave and exaggerate about the problems of nuclear, and simply ignore the problems of the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/119 "2010-02-22T02:34:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Again; that is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. > Really? If a nuclear plant explodes or otherwise releases radioactive materials into the surrounding environment, it ISN’T worse that a natural gas plant exploding? The contamination doesn’t linger for decades or longer? Those exposed don’t suffer higher rates of cancer? Bullshit. Now prove that such an accident can’t happen. It can, it has, and imo, it should never again. > We can store the waste safely and fairly easily. > > Again, how? You DO know what the half-life of this stuff is, don’t you? The US cannot even maintain bridges or roads or sewer systems…but we can maintain a nuclear disposal facillity for a few thousand years, no problem? :dubious: > > None of those is good enough. “Hydrogen” isn’t even an energy source in the first place! > > “Good enough”. What a scientific term. Cites? > No, it’s not. The cost of ( and damage caused by ) covering hundreds of miles of land with solar panels, the damage done in the process, and all the facilities needs to build and maintain the things is far more than the cost necessary for a nuclear power plant. The sheer size of the operation alone guarantees it. Solar is neither safer nor more economical. > You overlooked my point about decentralization…you don’t HAVE to cover "hundreds of miles of land with solar panels…you put them on the BUILDINGS already covering the land. And yes, w/o the government subsidies directed to oil, coal and nuclear, solar IS more economical. > > In other words, you want to despoil the land, plunge the nation into economic disaster, all so you can pat yourself on the back about your energy righteousness. Because that is exactly the result that trying to suppl y the country with solar will result in; huge tracts of land ruined, for a power source that isn’t up to the job. Damn, you caught me! That IS, in fact, my motive. Curses! Foiled again! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708/120 "2010-02-22T02:38:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The problem with that argument is that the stuff isn’t nearly as dangerous as the anti-nuke people like to pretend. If a little bit leaks out in a thousand years, it’s not likely to do serious harm. > > And again; that entire argument simply doesn’t address the harm done by alternatives. Which is standard for the anti-nukers; rant and rave and exaggerate about the problems of nuclear, and simply ignore the problems of the alternatives. Oh, of course not. Not nearly as dangerous as all that. Sure. Look it up. It is NOT something you want even a “little bit” of in your water or air or soil (or that of your great-great-great grandchildren). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-left-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power/529708.md?page=7)