# Why is the Myers-Briggs system disliked by so many people? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 28, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657 "2011-12-28T19:31:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/21 "2011-12-29T01:07:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I reiterate my opinion that any trait someone strongly identifies with is obvious to other people and usually the person as well and lesser correlated traits may as well be ascertained by means of a dartboard. Even if you’re right (and I think you’re oversimplifying), that still doesn’t provide any kind of framework for interaction with, or expectations from other types. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/22 "2011-12-29T01:37:59Z")
I think it would be just as useful to leave the basic personality types out and let the group discuss amongst themselves which type everyone is. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/23 "2011-12-29T01:45:50Z")
I question the premise. Just exactly what percentage of MB takers dislike it strongly? The reason why I ask is that I recall only a few very vocal folks (two, in fact) in my department who went on and on about not liking to be “put in a box” or “pigeonholed” and talked about how useless these things are. Most others just didn’t make a big fuss about it. I’m one of the ones who didn’t have a strong opinion. I found it neat that the one person who matched me really does seem to have many close personality traits to my own. I mean _very_ close. Despite the fact that she is a Taiwanese female and I’m a gringo dude, in the fifteen years I have worked with her I have always understood her reactions to different kinds of workplace stress far more than any other co-worker, because I felt exactly the same way in those situations. And the two folks who made such a big stink about it? They were the only two in their category set. One of the characteristics listed for their combo was something like “doesn’t want to be put in a box” 🙂 (I forgot what my group was and what the other people were. It was ten or twelve years ago.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/24 "2011-12-29T01:54:39Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > I was introduced to the Myers-Briggs personality typing system in college. I find it pretty neat and useful. Once I figure out someone’s type, it makes it a lot easier to predict a person’s behavior. Frankly if I found out someone was trying to “predict my behavior” using this kind of test, I would write him or her off as an idiot. If it were my boss, I’d start looking for another job. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/25 "2011-12-29T03:02:41Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > It seems that inordinately too many people, online at least, test as introvert (“deep thinker”) and intuitive (“smart”). The [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569411&highlight=myers-briggs) [polls](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=600438&highlight=myers-briggs) we’ve done here indicate that about 70-75% of the sample of Dopers are indeed IN’s, with about a third being INTJ’s, the most common type. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/26 "2011-12-29T03:10:00Z")
… **our** most common type. INTJ’s are fairly uncommon in the general population. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/27 "2011-12-29T03:19:57Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > I’ve found it moderately useful as a manager and team leader in understanding the preferred communication styles of colleagues. If I know or suspect someone is an ENFP I know that when they throw out frequent multiple (sometimes contradictory) ideas they are thinking out loud and I should let them talk it through, and draw them out on various ideas by asking some directed questions. > > On the other hand some of my team members are squarely ISTJ and they won’t think out loud and brainstorm freely/publicly. They’re much more comfortable thinking it through silently and listening to others before voicing an idea or plan. I know I am much more likely to get good concrete suggestions and feedback from them a couple of hours after a team meeting, after they’ve had time to noodle things over in private. > > As to using MBTI as a predictor of what someone would be good at or what their career path should be? No way. Right. As a _general_ guide to communicating to various 'types", it’s fine. As to being a “predictor” I think it’s useless. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/28 "2011-12-29T04:06:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I reiterate my opinion that any trait someone strongly identifies with is obvious to other people and usually the person as well and lesser correlated traits may as well be ascertained by means of a dartboard. Wholeheartedly agree. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/29 "2011-12-29T05:19:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Although personally, I dislike it because for some reason I always confuse it with the Voight-Kampff, and that makes me testy. Have you talked with your mother about this? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/30 "2011-12-29T06:01:10Z")
I always get a slightly different combo each time I take it. Given that there are only four components, anything less than 100% accuracy on re-tests is pretty damning. I think it falls really short on a lot of important subtlety. Like, the extrovert-introvert scale is not a particularly useful one to a lot of people. I’m a shy extrovert, which shouldn’t really make sense on a two-dimensional line. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/31 "2011-12-29T07:25:03Z")
While my score varies on many of the short tests, I find that it only varies by one letter on the longer ones. I’d argue that consistency is the only necessity for saying something is valid, not predictability. The test does not include what job I’m supposedly great for. ---
**Author:** ![Diamonds02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Diamonds02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diamonds02)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/32 "2011-12-29T08:45:02Z")
I’m talking more about the profile part. Yeah the test part has some validity issues, I’ve tested as everything, but when it comes to reading profiles they have described me consistantly. An example, say if I read a very good description of an INFP and say “aha, that’s me!”, it’s like every description of INFP regardless of source, describes me quite well. While the tests need touch ups, I think they are onto something that there are 16 main types of people. So, the next question is…if you don’t use MB to determine personality types and predict behavior, what sort of criteria does one use? I mean without using this sort of system, it seems more tempting to “type” people according to their gender/race/age/occupation/etc. a road that we don’t want to travel down. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/33 "2011-12-29T08:51:17Z")
> [@Diamonds02](#): > > I’m talking more about the profile part. Yeah the test part has some validity issues, I’ve tested as everything, but when it comes to reading profiles they have described me consistantly. An example, say if I read a very good description of an INFP and say “aha, that’s me!”, it’s like every description of INFP regardless of source, describes me quite well. The problem is when you can read profiles of other ‘types’ and identify with them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/34 "2011-12-29T09:11:08Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If you like Myers-Briggs, why not ask for a [Rumpology reading?](http://www.skepdic.com/rumpology.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > Stallone [the developer of RO] claims that the left and right butt cheeks reveal a person’s past and future, respectively… She claims any doctor will tell you that the body is like a warehouse which stores everything. She thinks that the right buttocks represents the left cerebral hemisphere of the brain, while the left buttocks represents the right hemisphere. Her rump report, she says, can tell you “whether you are going ass-backwards (into that little closet called the left brain)” or are going forward with the right brain. So the present’s in the crack, huh? Well that makes some sense at least… But do, as we age, and our futures become our pasts, the features move from one butt-side to the other? Do newborns have hugely structured right butt cheeks? Are old person’s right butt-sides nearly smoothed out? Is the day you die the day your right butt turns flat? So many questions are left open by this method! As for the Myers-Briggs, I think one problem is that it divides the population into two bins at opposite ends of the four scales, where one would expect the majority of people to fall ‘somewhere in between’ – i.e. it approximates a Gaussian distribution with a doubly-peaked (bimodal) one, which is a very bad approximation on average; most people, who will be judged to be placed near the peaks corresponding to the extremes, will in fact be placed near the central peak. This may still yield reasonably accurate judgements on a person-by-person basis, i.e. if the test correctly identifies your ‘leaning’, the side of the peak you’re on, you’ll likely judge it a valid characterization of yourself, but it grossly distorts the distribution of characters for a whole population. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/35 "2011-12-29T09:27:07Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > …Plus these factors should be separate from each other, but there is evidence that [the J/P and S/N scales are linked](http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/HRMWebsite/hrm/articles/develop/mbti.pdf) (PDF warning) (see pg. 5 for reference), which should not happen if they’re supposed to be measuring different things… Not necessarily - I mean, you could be right - and the four axes might be inappropriately grouped or described, or complete bullshit, or it could be that the linked scales are linked by some hidden/buried factor that isn’t relevant to the scope of the test. By way of analogy - for example, there are correlations between blonde hair and blue eyes, and between ginger hair and freckles - they’re not absolute, but in both cases, they’re linked by a genetic factor that isn’t really relevant to conversations about cosmetic, outward appearance, yet blonde hair is not the same thing as blue eyes, and freckles are a different outward phenomenon to ginger hair. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/36 "2011-12-29T09:29:47Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > As for the Myers-Briggs, I think one problem is that it divides the population into two bins at opposite ends of the four scales… No, it doesn’t. It says which side of an imaginary centre line you supposedly fall, and by how much - the position on the scales has a score value in each case - and in some cases, people are very close to the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/37 "2011-12-29T09:33:41Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think it falls really short on a lot of important subtlety. Like, the extrovert-introvert scale is not a particularly useful one to a lot of people. I’m a shy extrovert, which shouldn’t really make sense on a two-dimensional line. This was my impression also - I think it needs an additional dimension (like the political compass) to express how deeply-held/amenable to flexibility the positions are - the simple scale height doesn’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/38 "2011-12-29T09:41:43Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569411&highlight=myers-briggs) [polls](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=600438&highlight=myers-briggs) we’ve done here indicate that about 70-75% of the sample of Dopers are indeed IN’s, with about a third being INTJ’s, the most common type. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > … **our** most common type. INTJ’s are fairly uncommon in the general population. Which does tend to suggest there is _something_ measurable/measured here. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/39 "2011-12-29T10:33:22Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > No, it doesn’t. It says which side of an imaginary centre line you supposedly fall, and by how much - the position on the scales has a score value in each case - and in some cases, people are very close to the middle. Yes, it does give a spectrum for each to fall on, which is why it doesn’t give rise to a ‘two sharp lines’ distribution; but still, it’s my understanding that the overall distribution will indeed be bimodal, in disagreement with other measures. I think I got this mainly from [this skeptoid episode](http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221), so if I’m wrong there, I blame Brian Dunning. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657/40 "2011-12-29T10:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s your take on astrology? Myers-Briggs isn’t a whole lot different… > I can sum it up in one word: bullshit. We’ve had the same conversation at SDMB before, and I’ll give a response similar to that I gave before: _**Why in heaven’s name are Dopers so afraid of (or confused by) Myers-Briggs ?**_ Myers-Briggs asks questions about one’s personality and behavior and then makes predictions about one’s … personality and behavior. There may be limitations (answering honesty, changing, etc.) but to compare it to astrology goes beyond mere ignorance to demonstrate mind-boggling confusion. I test consistently as INTP, while many Dopers show as INTJ. The P/J difference is strikingly clear in many threads, probably including this one. 😃 I’d bet those comparing Myers-Briggs to astrology show as Judgmental. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-myers-briggs-system-disliked-by-so-many-people/607657.md?page=3)