# Why is the Pope against using condoms to help control AIDS in Africa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020 "2009-05-19T22:39:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/1 "2009-05-19T22:39:14Z")
I’m not a a Catholic and I realize that it’s very faith’s prerogative to make their own ethical rules, but in the face of the AID pandemic in Africa to hold fast to the “every sperm is sacred” notion seems almost immoral in light of the way AIDs is ravaging Africa. Why does the Pope hold fast to this in 2009 given what we know about the way AIDS spreads? If a forest fire is raging around you to say pyromaniacs should practice greater self control vs dousing the fires before they can get bigger doesn’t seem like a particularly effective strategy and given his stature and influence is (IMO) almost borderline immoral in the larger scheme of things. [Pope Benedict XVI, who is making his first papal visit to Africa, has said that handing out condoms is not the answer in the fight against HIV/Aids.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7947460.stm) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/2 "2009-05-19T23:03:39Z")
If you are not able to have safe sex, you are supposed to have no sex. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about this viewpoint. Sex is for procreation. The enjoyment is a side benefit. If you don’t want to procreate, you don’t have sex. Period. Realistic? Probably not. But it’s not an uncomplicated stance to understand, and it’s hardly an amoral concept. Abstinence. As much a choice as any other. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/3 "2009-05-19T23:14:04Z")
In 1968, Pope Paul VI released the encyclical _Humanae Vitae_, which laid out the Catholic Church’s position on birth control. It argues that all methods of artifical contraception are morally wrong. Here’s Wikipedia’s summary: > **[Humanae vitae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanae_Vitae)** > > Humanae vitae (Latin, meaning 'Of Human Life') is an encyclical written by Pope Paul VI and dated 25 July 1968. The text was issued at a Vatican press conference on 29 July. Subtitled On the Regulation of Birth, it re-affirmed the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding married love, responsible parenthood, and the rejection of artificial contraception. In formulating his teaching he explained why he did not accept the conclusions of the Pontifical Commission on Birth Control established by In short, he argues that it’s the divine plan that sexual intercourse is an act of mutual love between a married man and woman that allows God to generate new life. Therefore, any act that tries to seperate sexuality from the mutual love between husband and wife or denies the generative possibility is immoral, and that includes all kinds of artificial contraception, including condoms. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/4 "2009-05-19T23:14:30Z")
[Recent papal pronouncements](http://www.theonion.com/content/news/panicked_sweat_covered_pope) suggest we may hope for some relaxation of policy in this sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/5 "2009-05-19T23:19:22Z")
I hope I don’t sound too jaded in thinking it’s got to have something to do with making more Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/6 "2009-05-19T23:21:29Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I hope I don’t sound too jaded in thinking it’s got to have something to do with making more Catholics. It’s not like birth control was really acceptable to any Christian denomination until the middle of the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/7 "2009-05-19T23:27:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s not like birth control was really acceptable to any Christian denomination until the middle of the 20th century. What’s the connection between what I wrote and this? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/8 "2009-05-19T23:48:25Z")
In certain matters, it is unthinkable that any Catholic make an informed decision. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/9 "2009-05-20T00:24:47Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > What’s the connection between what I wrote and this? Only that I don’t think Catholicism adopted the policy to get a demographic edge on the other religions. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/10 "2009-05-20T00:53:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Only that I don’t think Catholicism adopted the policy to get a demographic edge on the other religions. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/11 "2009-05-20T01:18:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Why? Because all of Christianity had the same position until recently. “No birth control” is the traditional position. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/12 "2009-05-20T01:40:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Because all of Christianity had the same position until recently. “No birth control” is the traditional position. Because all of Christianity held the position, Catholics don’t hold it for reasons relating to wanting more Catholics? It doesn’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/13 "2009-05-20T02:49:55Z")
[Because he’s right.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html) The “he wants more Catholics” thing is not connected to reality, there is nothing even remotely resembling a proof. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/14 "2009-05-20T03:07:56Z")
I guess postmenopausal women (and their lovers/husbands) are sinning constantly, then. Another reason why I left the Catholic Church, years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/15 "2009-05-20T03:33:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > [Because he’s right.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html) > > The “he wants more Catholics” thing is not connected to reality, there is nothing even remotely resembling a proof. Says who? You’re not saying an article about a situation that’s been going on for ~25 years gets to the root of a policy that is probably as old as formalized religion itself, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/16 "2009-05-20T03:47:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > [Because he’s right.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html) > > The “he wants more Catholics” thing is not connected to reality, there is nothing even remotely resembling a proof. I don’t think you read that article carefully. It doesn’t prove what you think it proves. Condom use does help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. The reason why it’s not working in Africa is twofold. First, “consistent condom use has not reached a sufficiently high level, even after many years of widespread and often aggressive promotion, to produce a measurable slowing of new infections in the generalized epidemics of Sub-Saharan Africa.” IOW, they aren’t actually USING the condoms regularly. If they did, then the spread of AIDS would be slowed. Why aren’t they using condoms regularly? “Another factor is that people seldom use condoms in steady relationships because doing so would imply a lack of trust. (And if condom use rates go up, it’s possible we are seeing an increase of casual or commercial sex.) However, it’s those ongoing relationships that drive Africa’s worst epidemics.” It seems that these African nations have a polyamorous society. A significant minority of people in the most severely affected countries have two consistent sex partners. They are not promiscuous, but they have an interconnected web of regular partners, which is how the disease is spread. Since these relationships are long-term and intimate, people are less likely to use condoms. This is true generally, not just in Africa. Promoting monogamy along with condom use is an excellent idea. However, changing people’s cultures is notoriously difficult. Better education about using condoms correctly, every time, would probably be more effective, as it has been in Thailand and Cambodia. But to say that condom use has not significantly reduced the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa, so the Pope is right to oppose it, is ridiculous and not a fact-based argument. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/17 "2009-05-20T03:51:35Z")
What do condom advocates imagine is happening in Africa? Something like this: Ben: Well, my friend, it’s Friday night in Nairobi, and we just got paid. What are you going to do? Jomo: Well, first I think I’ll go down to the whorehouse, and have sex with some cute teenage girls. Then I’ll go downtown and have gay sex with some of the cute European tourist boys. Then I’ll go back home and have sex with my unsuspecting wife. Ben: You’re using condoms, of course? Jomo: What??? Blasphemer! I am a devout Catholic! I CANNOT and WOULD not ever use a condom while I’m screwing whores and getting buggered by random, anonymous men! That would be a sin!!! The Pope himself said so! Do you expect me to defy the commandments of my Church??? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/18 "2009-05-20T04:21:39Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I guess postmenopausal women (and their lovers/husbands) are sinning constantly, then. That isn’t what the Catholic Church believes. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/19 "2009-05-20T04:27:07Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I guess postmenopausal women (and their lovers/husbands) are sinning constantly, then. > > Another reason why I left the Catholic Church, years ago. If you left it for that reason it’s like not watching football because it has no homeruns. > [@Cisco](#): > > Says who? You’re not saying an article about a situation that’s been going on for ~25 years gets to the root of a policy that is probably as old as formalized religion itself, are you? No, of course. However, the Church as said since the beginning that condoms are not the solution and now they have not only a theological reason but facts. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I don’t think you read that article carefully. It doesn’t prove what you think it proves. Condom use does help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. The reason why it’s not working in Africa is twofold. First, “consistent condom use has not reached a sufficiently high level, even after many years of widespread and often aggressive promotion, to produce a measurable slowing of new infections in the generalized epidemics of Sub-Saharan Africa.” IOW, they aren’t actually USING the condoms regularly. If they did, then the spread of AIDS would be slowed. > > Why aren’t they using condoms regularly? “Another factor is that people seldom use condoms in steady relationships because doing so would imply a lack of trust. (And if condom use rates go up, it’s possible we are seeing an increase of casual or commercial sex.) However, it’s those ongoing relationships that drive Africa’s worst epidemics.” > > It seems that these African nations have a polyamorous society. A significant minority of people in the most severely affected countries have two consistent sex partners. They are not promiscuous, but they have an interconnected web of regular partners, which is how the disease is spread. Since these relationships are long-term and intimate, people are less likely to use condoms. This is true generally, not just in Africa. > > Promoting monogamy along with condom use is an excellent idea. However, changing people’s cultures is notoriously difficult. Better education about using condoms correctly, every time, would probably be more effective, as it has been in Thailand and Cambodia. But to say that condom use has not significantly reduced the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa, so the Pope is right to oppose it, is ridiculous and not a fact-based argument. Sorry, you’re fact-free. If those dumb horny promiscuous Africans you decribe are so obviously dumb, horny, and promiscuous it follows that condoms, which require planning and techinuqe, are not the solution. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020/20 "2009-05-20T07:57:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Sorry, you’re fact-free. If those dumb horny promiscuous Africans you decribe are so obviously dumb, horny, and promiscuous it follows that condoms, which require planning and techinuqe, are not the solution. No it does NOT follow. What follows is we find an alternate approach that would be more successful in improving the rate of condom use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-pope-against-using-condoms-to-help-control-aids-in-africa/497020.md?page=2)