# Why Is the Scottish Flag a Different Color Than the Union Jack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305 "2014-09-23T03:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/1 "2014-09-23T03:57:35Z")
As most of you no doubt, I was following the recent vote for Scottish independence with a lot of interest. There is just one thing that I can’t figure out and that bothers me. Maybe my attention to detail seems unnecessary to some. But in the news clips on tv, they showed some people waving the multi-national British union jack (England, Scotland and N. Ireland) . And some people waving the Scottish flag, with the cross of St. Andrew (a simple X, by any other name) white, in a blue field. The colors were **not** the same. The Scottish flag blue was kind of an aquamarine. And the British union jack was a dark, kind of royal blue. Shouldn’t they be the same color? The _ **exact** _ same color, in fact? And while I’m at it, something else I always wanted to ask: What do the colors of the US flag (red, white and blue) have to do, if anything, with the British union jack? (Is our blue from the Scottish flag, specifically?) Yes, I agree I should know. But most history books I own, at least, only go into the matter briefly, if at all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/2 "2014-09-23T04:20:52Z")
[From Flag of Scotland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland): > [@](#): > > Throughout the history of fabric production natural dyes have been used to apply a form of colour, with dyes from plants, including indigo from Woad, having dozens of compounds whose proportions may vary according to soil type and climate; therefore giving rise to variations in shade. In the case of the Saltire, variations in shades of blue have resulted in the background of the flag ranging from sky blue to navy blue. When incorporated as part of the Union Flag during the 17th century, the dark blue applied to Union Flags destined for maritime use was possibly selected on the basis of the durability of darker dyes, with this dark blue shade eventually becoming standard on Union Flags both at sea and on land. Some flag manufacturers selected the same navy blue colour trend of the Union Flag for the Saltire itself, leading to a variety of shades of blue being depicted on the flag of Scotland. [From Union Jack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack#Colours): > [@](#): > > Various shades of blue have been used in the Saltire over the years. The ground of the current Union Flag is a deep “navy” blue (Pantone 280), which can be traced to the colour used for the Blue Ensign of the Royal Navy’s historic “Blue Squadron”. (Dark shades of colour were used on maritime flags on the basis of durability.) In 2003 a committee of the Scottish Parliament recommended that the flag of Scotland use a lighter “royal” blue, (Pantone 300). (The Office of the Lord Lyon does not detail specific shades of colour for use in heraldry.) Citations in the articles, although the latter is vague. Probably related to nothing, but the US gained independence from the Kingdom of Great Britain, not the United Kingdom. The flag is similar without the red satire flag of St. Patrick, ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/3 "2014-09-23T04:21:07Z")
ummm… because Scotland is an independent country? Wales has it’s own flag too. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/4 "2014-09-23T04:35:30Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > ummm… because Scotland is an independent country? A) No it isn’t. B) The Union Jack is a combination of the flags of England and Scotland, and (later) a flag that was decided could represent Ireland. It’s curious that the shade most commonly used for one is not used for the other. (But heraldically, they are the same color. The exact shade is a matter of artistic license, and historically, whatever dye was available and how long the flag had been in the sun.) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/5 "2014-09-23T04:47:37Z")
Historically, there was no official shade of blue for the Scottish flag (or indeed for the Union Jack), and legally this is still the case. However in relatively recent times both the Scottish and UK governments have issued non-binding recommendations as to the shades suggested, and flag manufacturers tend to follow these. For blue, the UK government recommends Pantone 280, the Scottish government recommends Pantone 300. I have no idea why the recommendations are different. As for the US flag, the earliest flags flown by the Continental Congress had the then British flag in the canton, and presumably the use of red, white and blue was influenced by this. I don’t know if there are officially prescribed shades for the US flag. But red, white and blue are generally popular choices for flags; they make a clearly discernible contrast which aids in recognition at a distance which is, after all, the point of a flag. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/6 "2014-09-23T05:33:06Z")
Read 4 USC 1 for a description of the flag. Interestingly both Cornell Law and [gpo.gov](http://gpo.gov) show Chapter 1 as saying there are 48 stars on the flag with the two extra stars being added by executive order which I find strange. No reference as to shade of colors. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/7 "2014-09-24T03:46:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Read 4 USC 1 for a description of the flag. Interestingly both Cornell Law and [gpo.gov](http://gpo.gov) show Chapter 1 as saying there are 48 stars on the flag with the two extra stars being added by executive order which I find strange. No reference as to shade of colors. AFAIK the exact number and arrangement of stars on the US flag has always been by executive order. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/8 "2014-09-24T08:06:48Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > ummm… because Scotland is an independent country? Wales has it’s own flag too. What was it like on that other planet you spent the last week visiting? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/9 "2014-09-24T08:49:45Z")
It’s quite common to see Scottish flags in a darker, navy blue, and indeed if you look at the Scottish national football or rugby teams that is the colour they wear. Meanwhile, the lighter blue is sometimes used in the Union Jack, although in official use they tend to stick to the proper colour. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/10 "2014-09-24T08:55:20Z")
The Union flag is an \*artistic interpretation \*of the superimposition of the component nation flags anyway. You can’t get to it by simply putting them all together. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/11 "2014-09-24T09:50:09Z")
That dragon would get in the way, for a start. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/12 "2014-09-24T11:55:37Z")
I guess if TPTB wanted to include Wales on the flag, the candidate material could come from the flag of [St David](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saint_David) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-scottish-flag-a-different-color-than-the-union-jack/699305/13 "2014-09-24T13:00:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Read 4 USC 1 for a description of the flag. Interestingly both Cornell Law and [gpo.gov](http://gpo.gov) show Chapter 1 as saying there are 48 stars on the flag with the two extra stars being added by executive order which I find strange. No reference as to shade of colors. The exact procedure for adding stars is laid out in 4 USC §2: > [@](#): > > On the admission of a new State into the Union one star shall be added to the union of the flag; and such addition shall take effect on the fourth day of July then next succeeding such admission.