# Why is the SDMB dominated by Democrats/Liberals?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 11, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694 "2004-10-11T19:44:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/61 "2004-10-12T04:27:39Z")
**Sam Stone** said:
> [@](#):
>
> Tell you what: Go over to Free Republic and try to post your enlightened liberal ideas and see how you fare. Or pick a conservative blog and post your opposition in the comments. You’ll see how hard it is to debate when you’re outnumbered 10-1, regardless of how sound your ideas may be.
You make this claim time and again, and IMO it’s completely bogus. Why do you persist in assuming that anyone who happens to read this board believes that the highest word count or most clever backhanded insult wins the argument? Logic and fact talk and bullshit walks. If you have a sound argument in debate, you’ve not a thing to worry about. It doesn’t matter if ten, or hundred people, dispute it if your point has a factual and/or logical basis.
AFAIK no one, no one at all has ever stopped you from saying any thing you wanted to on this board. Please stop trying to claim you are being oppressed here. It’s repetitive, tedious, and has no basis in fact.
Here’s some anecdotal evidence in support. I’m a stone liberal, and in several years here, I don’t remember ever having commented one way or another about anything you’ve ever posted, until this very moment. And you’ll notice that I’ve said nothing about your political position, just your repeated characterizations of yourself as some sort of victim of repression. As far as I’m concerned you can say whatever you like. I can’t, however, control what anyone else happens to do around here.
If you object to hearing public criticisms of your views, you really shouldn’t be posting to a forum where anyone has the right to respond. Really, you ought to try just making your points, deal with the arguments that you feel are pertinent, ignore the rest, and most of all, grow a slightly thicker skin. It’s not life or death, it’s a frickin’ Internet message board.
I just hope I can remember that advice the next time one poster or another annoys the hell out of me. 😃
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/62 "2004-10-12T05:00:50Z")
I didn’t say I was oppressed. I said it’s hard work to keep up with all the arguments when you are outnumbered. That’s just the truth. It has nothing to do with oppression. It’s just work.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/63 "2004-10-12T05:16:27Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#):
>
> Well I responded to a begging question but I thought the assumption was reasonable. A quick search revealed this from the Washington Times:
You realize that citing the _Washington Times_ for an anti-liberal reference is like citing Michael Moore for an anti-Bush reference, right?
It’s also worth noting that Luntz Research Companies, the group conducting the survey in your cited report, is deep in bed with the GOP, as boasted on [their web site.](http://www.luntz.com/politicalanal.htm) And David Horowitz’s track record as a conservative pundit is no state secret.
When come back, bring _credible_ cite.
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/64 "2004-10-12T05:20:18Z")
I feel badly for you, **Sam**. You’re like the lone voice of reason, calling into night.
And all that hear you are the wolves and the wind.
😉
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### Author:  [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/65 "2004-10-12T05:22:59Z")
Originally posted by \*\* AHunter3\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> -
>
> ```
> So the perspectives and opinions on George Bush, which dominate political discussion on the board these days, are slewed from the general board attitude towards political issues as a whole.*
>
> ```
True. But if it’s any comfort to you all: I think this board was leaning to the right even in Clinton’s days. 😃
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/66 "2004-10-12T05:33:39Z")
> [@Sir Rhosis](#):
>
> I can understand the view that leftist paper running Cecil’s column equals leftist posters, for the most part, but not really. Although, pretty conservative, I read the “leftist” paper here out of Cincy, but became aware of Cecil through an old paperback reprinting of his columns.
I learned of the Straight Dope through an independent paper, but I don’t think it’s very liberal. (I mean, do you folks consider the Portland Phoenix liberal? Oh hell, you probably think of Oregon when someone says Portland. I’m inclined to think a liberal paper wouldn’t have hated Angus King so much.) There’s generally a mix of liberals and conservatives doing articles and columns – in the portions of the paper that aren’t devoted to art, which most of it is. Focus on Arts and Music !=liberal, but they do = free press a lot of the time, and the Chicago Reader seems inclined to print SD in free papers.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/67 "2004-10-12T05:34:34Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#):
>
> It is gratifying to see that **Sam Stone** stuck around: he consistently understands the need for facts and evidence when discussing empirical issues.
Perhaps I am reading you wrong but the unwritten implication here seems to be that liberals who post to this forum are incapable of informed opinions using cites and other evidence to support their stance.
That is provably wrong. Indeed, I would claim **Sam Stone’s** continued presence on this forum speaks to the fact that excellent, well reasoned debate from the opposing side does exist. Certainly there is some dreck that has to be waded through but he does not strike me as a person who would stay here shouting at a wall of frothing at the mouth liberals who are lucky to string two words together to flame him.
The bottom line is good debate can and does exist on this forum and for that to happen all sides in an argument need to be well represented. As with anything public like this it can collect its share of of the clueless but such is the price of an open forum. SDMB has had loons of all stripes at one time or another.
Note I do not claim to know **Sam Stone’s** motivations and could be completely off base. This is just my impression but regardless of his motivations I believe it does not change the fact that good, substantive debate is still alive at the SDMB.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/68 "2004-10-12T06:31:01Z")
Of course it is. That’s the only reason most of us are here.
It’d be a lot more pleasant for me to hang out on FreeRepublic, where my messages would get attaboys and you-tell-em’s. But I wouldn’t learn a damned thing. Difficult though it may be sometimes, it’s important to stay out of the echo chambers on the right and left and engage the oppostion. That’s the only way you can even hope to understand each other and correct your own misconceptions. Or maybe even correct theirs.
Preaching to the choir may be more enjoyable, but it’s a waste of time and effort.
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### Author:  [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/69 "2004-10-12T06:33:02Z")
**Mole** , I may be wrong but I think **Sam** was being compared to the average conservative, not to liberals.
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### Author:  [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/70 "2004-10-12T06:46:51Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#):
>
> The board also has a fairly large European contingent; my guess is that they’re always wondering why the Straight Dope leans so far to the right.
Thank the good Lord that someone finally said this. I’ve been trying to formulate a Pit thread titled something along the lines of “The Straight Dope Message Board Is NOT, Repeat NOT, Leftist” for quite some time.
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> the conservatives on the board here are dramatically better informed, more lucid, far sharper, and generally smarter than the average conservative thinking person.
_Some_ of them, yes. For all my disagreement with **Sam Stone** , you’ll never hear me call him stupid. He most certainly is not.
> [@MadSam](#):
>
> Wondering why if there were 2 people…one wanted to work 4 hours a day at 2 dollars /day and spend the afternoon at the saloon or beach he would earn 8 dollars/day…But if I decided I would forgo the beach or resting at home or whatnot, I would think that I should make 16 dollars/day…But I learned that the more you work, the more you pay for others who didn’t all things being equal.
There must be something missing in these sentences. Either that, or I just lost my English comprehension skills.
> [@](#):
>
> My point is that so many of the SDMB people i believe are involved in school either as students or teachers who have not been so heavily involved in knowing what it is like to pay taxes in excessive amounts.
I’m a student now, but I worked fulltime for four years and paid my taxes. It never bothered me one bit. I’m also in Sweden, where we pay _a lot_ more taxes than you guys do.
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> I didn’t say I was oppressed. I said it’s hard work to keep up with all the arguments when you are outnumbered. That’s just the truth. It has nothing to do with oppression. It’s just work.
This is nice to hear, since the “SDMB is liberal” argument is usually put forward like some kind of vague conspiracy theory. What you’re saying here definitely makes sense and is undeniably true.
See? This is why I’ll never call him stupid.
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### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/71 "2004-10-12T13:24:53Z")
> [@rjung](#):
>
> You realize that citing the _Washington Times_ for an anti-liberal reference is like citing Michael Moore for an anti-Bush reference, right?
>
> It’s also worth noting that Luntz Research Companies, the group conducting the survey in your cited report, is deep in bed with the GOP, as boasted on [their web site.](http://www.luntz.com/politicalanal.htm) And David Horowitz’s track record as a conservative pundit is no state secret.
>
> When come back, bring _credible_ cite.
Christ. Do you not believe that college professors are slanted to the left or are you just trying to make me do more work? More importantly, unless you agree with what I’ve said in the previous post to be true, why would you consider it “anti-liberal” to cite the majority of college professors as being liberal? Here is another poll:
> [@](#):
>
> Indeed, in a Harris Poll last year, 36 percent of Americans identified themselves as conservatives, compared to the 19 percent who described themselves as liberal.
>
> Contrast that with the survey last year by UCLA’s Higher Education Research Institute, which canvassed more than 32,000 full-time undergraduate professors.
>
> Some 48 percent identified themselves as either liberal or “far left,” compared with a mere 18 percent that considered themselves conservative or “far right.”
and another:
> [@](#):
>
> The latest data appear in the Aug. 29 issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education. A solid majority of those teaching at both public and private universities described themselves as being either liberal or far left. Less than a third considered themselves middle of the road and just 15 percent said they were conservative. Not surprisingly, 50 percent of the general public considers college professors to be more liberal than they are.
>
> Interestingly, this puts most faculty members well to the left of their students. According to the same source, less than 28 percent of them would be classified as liberal or far left. More than half consider themselves to be middle of the road, and 21 percent say they are conservative. A new Gallup poll suggests that this may even understate the case. It found that 29 percent of those age 18 to 24 consider themselves to be conservatives, with just 30 percent saying they are liberals.
More, albeit from [intellectualconservative.com](http://intellectualconservative.com) (Are you thinking oxymoron?)
> [@](#):
>
> In October 2003, 70% of Americans agreed that the government should spend more money on a defense system against nuclear missiles. Only 14% of Ivy Professors agreed. 74% disagreed.
>
> 21% of Ivy Professors believe the media is liberal biased, versus 45% of the American public in a recent Gallup poll.
>
> Given the choice of the editorial page of the New York Times (perhaps the most liberal newspaper in America) versus the Wall Street Journal (perhaps the most conservative), 72% of Ivy Professors said they agree more with the editorial page of the Times, and 5% said they agree with the Journal.
>
> That’s a pretty stacked deck on the side of liberal thought in Ivy League colleges. Other studies in recent years have shown a similar, overwhelming liberal bias in college faculties, and discrimination and denial of tenure to conservative professors.
>
> Sites like Accuracy in Academia, Campus Report Online, the Collegiate Network, and the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, are attempting to catalog this abuse and are working to improve education at all levels by bringing about greater balance.
In the interests off getting to the truth rather than proving myself right, I’ll also cite the results of a Harvard Institute of Politics poll that shows the gap significantly smaller (32 vs. 36%) . I’m even doing your work for you!
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/72 "2004-10-12T13:44:33Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#):
>
> First off, I’m socially liberal. Pro-choice, anti-death penalty, hardcore seperation of church/state, all for stemcell research, etc… You name it, I’m liberal. But, most arguments I hear from liberals about trade regulations, price controls, etc. betray not merely a difference of opinion but an outright ignorance of economics. Bottom line is that liberals always want to toy with the workings of the economic engine rather than simply redirecting it’s output.
Well, believe me, there is a lot of ignorance of economics on the conservative side too. Conservatives, for example, often act as if the “free market” is magic and can solve problems that it doesn’t even “know about” because the costs of the problem are being externalized. And they also often seem to think that the government somehow spends money in such a way that it provides no stimulus for the economy. (Of course, it is perfectly reasonable to hypothesize that the money could stimulate the economy more if spent in some other way…But, you it is something that can’t just be assumed.)
There is plenty of ignorance on economic matters to go around.
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### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/73 "2004-10-12T14:20:24Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Well, believe me, there is a lot of ignorance of economics on the conservative side too. Conservatives, for example, often act as if the “free market” is magic and can solve problems that it doesn’t even “know about” because the costs of the problem are being externalized. And they also often seem to think that the government somehow spends money in such a way that it provides no stimulus for the economy. (Of course, it is perfectly reasonable to hypothesize that the money could stimulate the economy more if spent in some other way…But, you it is something that can’t just be assumed.)
>
> There is plenty of ignorance on economic matters to go around.
I’ll certainly agree that there is a lot of ignorance on the conservative side too. But I notice that in many GD’s that involve economics, the liberal side is debating whether the theory is true, while the conservatives are defending the morality of applying it. If you accept the theory to be true but disagree with the morality, you could always proffer increasing taxes for subsidies as a solution for inequity rather than controlling prices, restricting trade, etc… That way your letting the market work it’s “magic” but simply redirecting the output. I also agree with you that many radical libertarians don’t understand that markets aren’t typically transparent or efficient enough to withstand complete privatization. I think their errors, however, are at a significantly higher level of economic reasoning.
After thought: I think **Liberal** might have something to say about your calling prescribers of free markets “conservative.”
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/74 "2004-10-12T18:22:01Z")
[QUOTE]
Some 48 percent identified themselves as either liberal or “far left,” compared with a mere 18 percent that considered themselves conservative or “far right.” [\QUOTE]
You started out in this thread claiming that the reason why the SDMB leans left is that all, or at least the greatest number, of left-leaning posters where college students or professors, a fact that’s contradicted by numerous “what’s you’re job” threads we’ve had on other forums. So all this arguing doesn’t bring you closer to proving your original hypothesis.
Of course I agree that academics are on average more liberal than the whole population, though it isn’t nearly as monolithic a difference as crackpots like Horowitz would tell you. But with statistics like the one above we see that less than half of professors describe themselves as liberals, it hardly accounts for every liberal out there, does it now? Also, it should be noted that the Ivy League contains just eight of America’s several thousand institutions of higher learning, so statistics about only the Ivy League don’t count for much.
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### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/75 "2004-10-12T19:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion]
> [@](#):
>
> Some 48 percent identified themselves as either liberal or “far left,” compared with a mere 18 percent that considered themselves conservative or “far right.” [\QUOTE]
>
> You started out in this thread claiming that the reason why the SDMB leans left is that all, or at least the greatest number, of left-leaning posters where college students or professors, a fact that’s contradicted by numerous “what’s you’re job” threads we’ve had on other forums. So all this arguing doesn’t bring you closer to proving your original hypothesis.
Did you mean “were” college professors? If not, I’m not sure what you mean. In either case, I never said that the majority of posters were college students or professors.
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### Author:  [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/76 "2004-10-12T21:31:35Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#):
>
> In the interests off getting to the truth rather than proving myself right, I’ll also cite the results of a Harvard Institute of Politics poll that shows the gap significantly smaller (32 vs. 36%) . I’m even doing your work for you!
That would be nice, as the cite you cite cites two actual organizations (and their respective spinoffs) instead of four, and their funding list is basically the Olin and Scaife foundations. Let’s just say that I find it REALLY hard to believe they want a balance.
What the hell is with all of this balance anyway? If I thought that the media, colleges, message boards, etc., were all biased, I’d strive to find unbiased replacements, not try and tip the scales in the other direction?
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### Author:  [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/77 "2004-10-13T04:03:23Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#):
>
> As someone who considers himself conservative, but scores on the liberal side in most (US-devised) tests, I have developed two theories during my four months on the SDMB (one month under another alias - quite legally - don’t alarm a Mod or try it at home).
>
> 1. The true test of a liberal is whether (s)he hates guns and wants the damn things banned. Gun-veneration unites most American dopers, whether “left” or “right”. If and only if they pass the “guns kill people and are not nice” test, they qualify as card-carrying liberals.
Not sure what you’re getting at. Are you saying most folks on the SDMB aren’t “truly” liberal because they don’t want guns banned?
I consider myself a liberal (-3, -5 on the political compass) and I don’t want guns banned. But then, I don’t carry a card either. 😉
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### Author:  [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/78 "2004-10-13T04:29:36Z")
> [@Mr2001](#):
>
> Not sure what you’re getting at. Are you saying most folks on the SDMB aren’t “truly” liberal because they don’t want guns banned?
>
> I consider myself a liberal (-3, -5 on the political compass) and I don’t want guns banned. But then, I don’t carry a card either. 😉
It’s just my provocative way of calling into question whether many American liberals are really liberals at all. I’m just positing no-guns as a litmus test for liberalism. I see so little difference between Republicans and Democrats, and between Kerry and Bush. The issues that divide the camps (abortion and homosexual marriage, for example) are important, it sometimes seems to me, because they appear to clearly differentiate the two sides. Their function has become largely iconic and symbolic in my view. They allow two very similar sets of people to engage with each other in what passes to the casual observer as angry debating. More like shadow boxing to me.
But when an American on these boards says (s)he opposes gun ownership (or more accurately supports a model like the British one, where shotguns are permitted for shooting the odd inedible pheasant) I sit up and take notive and think: “Aha! A radical! What else do you believe - you interest me.”
That someone lives in Berkeley, on the other hand, doesn’t by itself cut the mustard for me.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-sdmb-dominated-by-democrats-liberals/268694/79 "2004-10-13T05:37:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> Perhaps I am reading you wrong but the unwritten implication here seems to be that liberals who post to this forum are incapable of informed opinions using cites and other evidence to support their stance.
You are reading me wrong (or, more likely, I expressed myself poorly).
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