# Why Is the Song of Solomon In the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186 "2019-12-21T18:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/21 "2019-12-23T05:20:38Z")
Because the Council of Rome in 382 decided that it should be, and most people since have just followed along. They basically followed the 367 listing by Athanasius and included the whole of the Talmud as the Old Testament, but since your question specified the Bible I think the history of the Talmud would be a related but different topic. Seems more like a GQ question to me. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/22 "2019-12-23T08:28:33Z")
Why are people still discussing Christianity in a thread about Judaism? Go appropriate something else. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/23 "2019-12-23T16:02:51Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Because the Council of Rome in 382 decided that it should be, and most people since have just followed along. They basically followed the 367 listing by Athanasius and included the whole of the Talmud as the Old Testament, but since your question specified the Bible I think the history of the Talmud would be a related but different topic. > Seems more like a GQ question to me. I don’t think the word “Talmud” means what you think it means. If the Christians really included the Talmud I’d love to see a cite. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/24 "2019-12-23T16:15:36Z")
Why shouldn’t it be? Scripture has quite a bit of wisdom literature and Song of Songs/Solomon seems to fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/25 "2019-12-23T16:25:16Z")
As Father Mulcahey said on M_A_S\*H, Solomon had a lot to sing about. I’m not sure what Songs really adds as scripture, but certainly married love is unobjectionable. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/26 "2019-12-23T16:47:06Z")
The reason given in [the Wikipedia articl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs#Canonisation_and_interpretation)e is the one I have always understood: it was included because it was supposedly written by Solomon, and was, at the time, thought to be a religious allegory. There had been a fierce debate about it, as many wanted to remove it for the same reason people question why it’s there today. Wiki also includes information I didn’t know, about how the highly respected Rabbi Akiva forbade it from being used in celebrations, saying such would lead to “forfeiting his share in the world to come.” And that it is considered very important in Kaballah, which takes a much more mystical reading of the texts. And there are some readings from it to this day that are used before Passover and the Sabbath, both being used as allegory for God’s love for Israel. On the Christian side, it seems the highly respected theologian Origen popularized this same idea, but that it later morphed into seeing the Beloved as representing Virgin Mary. However, my impression these days is that it’s actually more used to demonstrate what marital love is supposed to be like. That is the reason I’ve been told it is still valuable today, at least. Having it be instructive of how love should be fits the common Christian understanding of the Bible as a guide for how to live one’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/27 "2019-12-23T17:33:15Z")
It is a very sexually explicit love story about a married couple. The English translated version is toned way, way down to the point of being incorrect (IMO). Try to interpret every word in the most sexual way possible and you’ll come closer to the actual intent of the text. I’ve studied the Bible for a long time and from what I can tell God loves sex even more than people do. ---
**Author:** ![Deltree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Deltree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deltree)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/28 "2019-12-23T21:17:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It does seem like a couple weird Baptist sects are against any sort of sex, sure. But they are a tiny minority, even tho rather loud. Why do Baptists never have sex standing up? Someone seeing them might think they’re dancing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/29 "2019-12-23T21:35:06Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Because the Council of Rome in 382 decided that it should be, and most people since have just followed along. They basically followed the 367 listing by Athanasius and included the whole of the [strike]Talmud[/strike] Tanakh as the Old Testament, but since your question specified the Bible I think the history of the Talmud would be a related but different topic. > Seems more like a GQ question to me. I think this is what you meant to say. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/30 "2019-12-23T21:36:13Z")
hmm. “strike” doesn’t work. Maybe some other word? Anyway, I intended to cross out the word “Talmud” ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/31 "2019-12-23T21:45:04Z")
**Kimstu** , judging from the headline and first few lines of the article you linked to, I think the OP’s question would be answered. However, I hit a paywall when I clicked on the link. Could you please summarize? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/32 "2019-12-23T21:50:00Z")
It is in the Bible because the Rabbis of the Great Assembly - the religious leaders of the time the second Holy Temple was built - determined it was written with “holy spirit.” According to the Talmud, it is actually “Holy of Holies” and is meant to be understood only on an allegorical level (an allegory for the relationship between G-d and Israel), as opposed to the rest of the Bible (Old Testament, to Christians) which is meant to be understood as both the plain meaning of the text as well as to have underlying allegorical wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/33 "2019-12-23T21:56:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > hmm. “strike” doesn’t work. Maybe some other word? Anyway, I intended to cross out the word “Talmud” You’re looking for the “delete” code: [del] word [/del] turns into [del]word[/del] when you omit the spaces. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/34 "2019-12-23T22:05:17Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/35 "2019-12-23T22:13:10Z")
Off topic, but is there a space here that explains all the text editing options? Like how to do spoilers? I’m only seeing the basics here. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/36 "2019-12-24T02:18:11Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > Off topic, but is there a space here that explains all the text editing options? Like how to do spoilers? I’m only seeing the basics here. Dunno. But the workaround I’ve always used is to quote a post that includes the effect I want - strikethrough, spoiler, whatever - to see the codes (or whatever they’re called) needed. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/37 "2019-12-24T02:25:06Z")
“Formatting”. That was the word I was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/38 "2019-12-24T03:02:35Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > **Kimstu** , judging from the headline and first few lines of the article you linked to, I think the OP’s question would be answered. However, I hit a paywall when I clicked on the link. Could you please summarize? Hmm, sorry **nelliebly** , I now get a paywall from that link too, although I didn’t when I first read it. Anyway, I think **BigT** ’s and **cmkeller** ’s subsequent posts basically covered the gist of it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/39 "2019-12-24T03:52:07Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I don’t know if any of you ever read the Song of Solomon in the Christian Bible. But it is downright dirty. I think it also involves an unmarried couple. I could be wrong on that one. Because I never read it thru. And although we studied the Old Testament in RC high school, we never got to that book (perhaps not surprisingly). > > I have nothing against healthy sexuality, mind you. If anything (and I do mean **anything** ) involves consenting adults, I have no problem with it. But the Bible is Christian. And traditional Christians are actually supposed to be against that stuff. No? > > Another question, I have had for some time now. Why is the Song of Solomon never quoted? Conservative Christians quote the Bible left and right. But they never quote that book. Am I wrong? I mean it is a bona fide book in the bible, is it not? > > :):):):)🙂 Well, _Song of Solomon_ is not in the Bible used by the Community of Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/40 "2019-12-24T04:27:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why are people still discussing Christianity in a thread about Judaism? This thread is not “about Judaism”, it’s about why the Song of Solomon is in the Bible. And the answer to that question depends on what one means by “the Bible”, for which different religions and sects have different criteria. As **Monty** points out, LDS versions of the Bible entirely exclude the Song of Solomon. Moreover, some Eastern Christian sources preserve different versions of the Song from the canonical Hebrew one. Even in Western Christianity, Catholics and Protestants use different versions of the Old Testament, neither of which exactly reproduces the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh in its canonical form from the early Common Era; for instance, the Protestant Old Testament divides up the 24 books of the Tanakh into 39 books. Early Christians were arguing about which scriptures should be considered canonical both before and after the final schism of Christianity from Judaism, and the survival of the Song of Songs as part of the Christian Bible probably had a lot to do with the allegorical interpretation espoused by early Church Fathers. > [@Alessan](#): > > Go appropriate something else. Not sure who peed in your Cheerios, but it’s entirely reasonable to include discussions of Christian theology in a thread about why the Song of Songs is/was considered appropriate for inclusion in the Bible, depending whose definition of the Bible you’re talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186.md?page=3)