# Why Is the Song of Solomon In the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186 "2019-12-21T18:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/41 "2019-12-24T07:21:18Z")
Because with a few minor exceptions, Christians took the entire Tanakh, stuck a cross on its cover and called it their own. Asking why SOS is in the Christian bible is the same as asking why Genesis or Jeremiah are there - and the answer is, because the Jews did it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/42 "2019-12-24T07:55:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because with a few minor exceptions, Christians took the entire Tanakh, stuck a cross on its cover and called it their own. :rolleyes: Historically, early Christians considered the Tanakh part of their sacred scriptures because they considered themselves Jews, just as other contemporary messianic movements in Judaism did. On account of, you know, their being people of Jewish heritage and practice in Jewish communities, just like other messianic Jewish sects of their day. As gentiles came to dominate the Christian sect/movement, they still considered that scriptural heritage and tradition part of their religion. Just as the early Hebrews still considered much pre-Jewish mythological heritage, such as the ancient Near Eastern flood myths, to be part of **their** religion. Not really seeing why this perfectly normal and unremarkable phenomenon of scriptural continuity across doctrinal evolution is getting your underwear in such a twist. > [@Alessan](#): > > Asking why SOS is in the Christian bible is the same as asking why Genesis or Jeremiah are there - and the answer is, because the Jews did it. Yes, people who considered themselves Jewish Christians in the early centuries of the Common Era considered the Tanakh part of their sacred scriptures, as I already said, and that’s ultimately why the modified version of the Tanakh commonly called the “Old Testament” is part of the Christian Bible. But the issue of how one particular canonical form of the Old Testament came to be so similar to the canonical Tanakh in matters such as the inclusion of SOS is nowhere near as simple as you’re trying to make out. Different Christian denominations use different versions of the Old Testament, for example. Honestly, **Alessan** , there are enough things to be legitimately mad at Christians about vis-a-vis their treatment of Jews through the centuries that you don’t have to make up silly ahistorical fantasies about some imaginary post-antiquity Christianity as a completely separate religion somehow illegitimately stealing or “appropriating” the Jewish scriptures to put in their Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/43 "2019-12-24T08:12:05Z")
I’m sorry, but even though that ship has sailed long, long ago, it still bugs me, and it wouldn’t bother me as much if it weren’t an ongoing issue. Take some American Christians’ insistence on placing the Ten Commandments in various inappropriate places, like courthouses. How do the Ten Commandments start? “I am they Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt”. That “you” right there in the middle does not refer to Christians or to humanity in general, but to the People of Israel, specifically and exclusively. It’s part of what defines us as a nation. The Ten Commandments were not addressed to gentiles, and they have no right to them. This isn’t about religion, it’s about cultural heritage and founding myths. It really bothers me when people - specifically Christians - try to erase us from our own history. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/44 "2019-12-24T08:48:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But the issue of how one particular canonical form of the Old Testament came to be so similar to the canonical Tanakh in matters such as the inclusion of SOS is nowhere near as simple as you’re trying to make out. Different Christian denominations use different versions of the Old Testament, for example. There are only 4 books which are different between the Orthodox and Catholic churches ([the Orthodox have 4 more books](https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-catholics-and-orthodox-have-the-same-bible)). The majority of the differences are post-Rennaisance and come from the same attitude of They Can’t Make Me which gave us removed Sacraments re-added as Holy Actions and suchlike. And “the early Christians” were majority-Jewish for less than a generation, but the idea that Christianity somehow grew up our Bible with-out judaism is the kind of thing that would be laughable if it wasn’t so irritating. As one of my favorite priests likes to say “we’re the biggest branch of Judaism, actually, and heretic as hell.” If that makes someone freak out, that someone needs to grow up. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/45 "2019-12-24T19:40:14Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I don’t know if any of you ever read the Song of Solomon in the Christian Bible. But it is downright dirty. I think it also involves an unmarried couple. I could be wrong on that one. Because I never read it thru. And although we studied the Old Testament in RC high school, we never got to that book (perhaps not surprisingly). > > I have nothing against healthy sexuality, mind you. If anything (and I do mean **anything** ) involves consenting adults, I have no problem with it. But the Bible is Christian. And traditional Christians are actually supposed to be against that stuff. No? > > Another question, I have had for some time now. Why is the Song of Solomon never quoted? Conservative Christians quote the Bible left and right. But they never quote that book. Am I wrong? I mean it is a bona fide book in the bible, is it not? > > :):):):)🙂 quoted by who and when? There are 66 books in Bible, so every book may not be quoted except for specific instances. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/46 "2019-12-24T23:14:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The woman in Song of Solomon has dark skin from being tanned by the sun. That’s totally different from being born black. or it may refer to Queen of Sheba (modern-day Ethiopia)m hence Black, since Ethiopia is part desert ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/47 "2019-12-24T23:52:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There are only 4 books which are different between the Orthodox and Catholic churches ([the Orthodox have 4 more books](https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-catholics-and-orthodox-have-the-same-bible)). Yes, but those aren’t the only categories of Christian denominations. As you can see from the handy table in [this Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon), the Greek Orthodox, Slavonic Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic, Syriac Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, and Orthodox Tewahedo canons all differ to some extent in various ways. And that’s not even counting the variations in Biblical canons that are arguably (LDS) or definitely (Samaritans) not Christian. > [@Alessan](#): > > I’m sorry, but even though that ship has sailed long, long ago, it still bugs me, and it wouldn’t bother me as much if it weren’t an ongoing issue. Take some American Christians’ insistence on placing the Ten Commandments in various inappropriate places, like courthouses. How do the Ten Commandments start? “I am they Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt”. That “you” right there in the middle does not refer to Christians or to humanity in general, but to the People of Israel, specifically and exclusively. It’s part of what defines us as a nation. The Ten Commandments were not addressed to gentiles, and they have no right to them. > > This isn’t about religion, it’s about cultural heritage and founding myths. It really bothers me when people - specifically Christians - try to erase us from our own history. I certainly don’t condone **historically** misrepresenting or erasing in any way the role of Jews in the history of Christianity, or of course the ongoing historical development of Judaism post-Christianity. But I do think it’s somewhat immature, as **Nava** says, to “freak out” about the fundamental theological fact that Christians consider themselves to be the inheritors and fulfillers of the Jewish tradition. That is a core point of Christian doctrine based on direct scriptural attribution to the statements of the 2000±year-old Jewish guy that they consider to be literally the son of, and a co-equal co-eternal member of, God Himself. If the existence of that doctrine really bothers you, welp, you’re gonna stay bothered. That reaction also seems somewhat hypocritical, since Christians are far from the only religious sect that have diverged away from an earlier religious tradition while making aspects of its scripture all about themselves. Do you have similar qualms about, say, Jewish theology “erasing” from the Genesis flood narrative the pre-Hebrew religions that actually originated the ANE flood narrative tradition? Or, for that matter, “erasing” the pre-Hebrew ([and in fact even pre-Semitic](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/the-biblical-song-of-songs-and-the-sumerian-love-songs/)) originators of ancient Semitic love poetry from its interpretation of the Song of Songs, a work descended from that poetic tradition? You don’t? Then maybe you need to think about that when complaining that Christians, in a similarly naive way, interpret their inherited version of the ancient Hebrew scriptures as just part of their own religion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/48 "2019-12-25T00:01:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > … > That reaction also seems somewhat hypocritical, since Christians are far from the only religious sect that have diverged away from an earlier religious tradition while making aspects of its scripture all about themselves. Do you have similar qualms about, say, Jewish theology “erasing” from the Genesis flood narrative the pre-Hebrew religions that actually originated the ANE flood narrative tradition? Or, for that matter, “erasing” the pre-Hebrew ([and in fact even pre-Semitic](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/the-biblical-song-of-songs-and-the-sumerian-love-songs/)) originators of ancient Semitic love poetry from its interpretation of the Song of Songs, a work descended from that poetic tradition? > > You don’t? Then maybe you need to think about that when complaining that Christians, in a similarly naive way, interpret their inherited version of the ancient Hebrew scriptures as just part of their own religion. The ancient Hebrews, being misogynistic to a extreme degree, also took out pretty much all references to Asherah. Note to mention that the OT is also the Muslim bible also. I dont notice any complaints about them stealing those books. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/49 "2019-12-25T00:10:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note to mention that the OT is also the Muslim bible also. I dont notice any complaints about them stealing those books. Obsessive Nitpicker feels constrained to point out that of course Muslim theology considers the Qur’an as revealed to Muhammad its chief holy scripture, although it regards the Torah, Psalms and Gospel (at least in some unspecified “original” form) to be likewise divine revelation, bestowed on the earlier prophets Moses, David and Jesus respectively. Not sure exactly which aspect(s) of that you were referencing by the phrase “Muslim bible”. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/50 "2019-12-25T16:47:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think this is what you meant to say. Puzzlegal- I’m going to be all Christmasy here and just point out that changing the words in a quote is disallowed by the rules. Please don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/51 "2019-12-27T01:05:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m sorry, but even though that ship has sailed long, long ago, it still bugs me, and it wouldn’t bother me as much if it weren’t an ongoing issue. Take some American Christians’ insistence on placing the Ten Commandments in various inappropriate places, like courthouses. How do the Ten Commandments start? “I am they Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt”. That “you” right there in the middle does not refer to Christians or to humanity in general, but to the People of Israel, specifically and exclusively. It’s part of what defines us as a nation. The Ten Commandments were not addressed to gentiles, and they have no right to them. > > This isn’t about religion, it’s about cultural heritage and founding myths. It really bothers me when people - specifically Christians - try to erase us from our own history. You do realize that Jesus quoted the OT frequently, and he was the fulfillment of OT prophesies? The OT is always part of any sermon, Bible study, etc so Christians have never tried to “erase” you from your history ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/52 "2019-12-27T01:34:39Z")
As to the other point about non-jews not having a right to the ten commandments. No, wrong, everyone has a right to that, they can quote it, believe it, live their lives by it. What they don’t have a right to do is to tear down the wall of church and state by placing that bit of mythology on government property. Are we getting off topic again? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/53 "2019-12-27T01:52:07Z")
An aside: some Christian mystics, most famously St.John of the Cross (16th century Spain) used the Song of Songs as a metaphor for the passionate search for union of the soul with God. Personally I think that is one of the best interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/54 "2019-12-27T18:43:38Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > An aside: some Christian mystics, most famously St.John of the Cross (16th century Spain) used the Song of Songs as a metaphor for the passionate search for union of the soul with God. Personally I think that is one of the best interpretations. I bet that with enough effort you could interpret Fanny Hill the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/55 "2019-12-28T01:02:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I bet that with enough effort you could interpret Fanny Hill the same way. You should read St.John of the Cross before you make that flip remark. He was one of the great western mystics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/56 "2019-12-28T01:30:06Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > As to the other point about non-jews not having a right to the ten commandments. No, wrong, everyone has a right to that, they can quote it, believe it, live their lives by it. What they don’t have a right to do is to tear down the wall of church and state by placing that bit of mythology on government property. Sure they can, as long as they include it in with stuff like the Code of Hammurabi, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/57 "2019-12-28T02:30:42Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > You do realize that Jesus quoted the OT frequently, and he was the fulfillment of OT prophesies? The OT is always part of any sermon, Bible study, etc so Christians have never tried to “erase” you from your history This is true, but as a Christian, I think **Alessan** ’s point from Post #41 (quoted below) was spot-on, and something similar to it was my first reaction to the OP: It wasn’t Christians who decided that the SoS should be in the Bible, and any answers to the OP’s question need to take that into account. > [@Alessan](#): > > Because with a few minor exceptions, Christians took the entire Tanakh, stuck a cross on its cover and called it their own. Asking why SOS is in the Christian bible is the same as asking why Genesis or Jeremiah are there - and the answer is, because the Jews did it. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/58 "2019-12-28T02:56:34Z")
Side note: By 1970, quality compact tape recorders allowed bootlegging of concerts. I prized my copy of LIVE’R THAN YOU’LL EVER BE. That and other bootlegs prompted the Rolling Stones to release an official concert album, GET YER YA-YA’s OUT! Similarly, by circa 380 CE, many apocalyptic texts circulated in the Xian world. The 382 Council of Rome adopted The Apocalypse of St John as canonical, an “official” revelation to counter mad prophets. IMHO official versions are usually cleaner but less spirited than are wild offshoots. Back to topic, maybe: How do we know the usual Song of Solomon is “original”? I recall from somewhere (sorry, no cite) that all Hebrew Scriptures were destroyed during the Babylonian Captivity, and rewritten from memory by a surviving priest. If that’s so, all sorts of errors could be inserted there and elsewhere. Please help! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186/59 "2019-12-28T20:17:01Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This is true, but as a Christian, I think **Alessan** ’s point from Post #41 (quoted below) was spot-on, and something similar to it was my first reaction to the OP: It wasn’t Christians who decided that the SoS should be in the Bible, and any answers to the OP’s question need to take that into account. Well, they did. Some groups took out parts of the OT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-song-of-solomon-in-the-bible/845186.md?page=2)