Why is the South so conservative?

Bruce_Daddy, does your lovely town of Greenville have a “black district”? Are the roads poorer there? Does it have above-ground phone and electrical lines when other neighborhoods have them below ground? Are the property values lower there, and yet for some reason it’s difficult to get that affordable property commercially zoned? What side of the railroad tracks is it on, and how close? Ever heard the name Josh White? I’ll sure as hell bet you’ve heard of Bob Jones.

Do you know when I learned that Booker T. Washington supervised a school in my one-time home town of Christiansburg, Virginia? About an hour ago, when I was preparing a post for this thread. Nobody ever taught me that when I went to high school barely a mile away from the remains of the Christiansburg Institute.

I had answers to most of the questions above which seem to indicate an undercurrent of racism, fear, financial isolation, oppression and historical amnesia in the southern town in which I grew up, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all that conservatism goes hand in hand with it.

What in the hell do you see?

Anyone interested in this thread should check out the websites of the following organizations, which express the spirit of “Southern conservatism” pretty well:

The Knights Party (political vehicle of the Ku Klux Klan):
http://www.kkk.com/

The Southern Party:
http://www.southernparty.org/

The Southern Independence Party:
http://www.southernindependentparty.com/

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Himmler belongs to one or more of these.

Sorry, that would be:

The Southern Independence Party:
http://www.southernindependentparty.com/

Because those gays are secretly implementing the The Homosexual Agenda! :wink:

Sofa King, of course there are social and economical differences in a community. I fail to see the connection between that and

. Huh? The logic is that because Southerners supposedly wish for slavery, segregation and no voting rights for Blacks (which is truly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard) that the Black man is kept on the poor side of the tracks. What’s the excuse elsewhere in the country where there is a “hood”?

That’s what the hell I see.

Ugh! A neo-Nazi has taken a crap in my nice thread. I feel… sullied.
:frowning:

“Run away, Scar. Run away and never return!”
:mad:

In his book Vietnam: The Necessary War (New York: The Free Press, 1999), Michael Lind notes that southerners were much more likely than people of other regions of the country to support the Vietnam War – and to support every prior American war in history. What is at the root of this Southern militarism? The following discussion is from pp. 122-125:

Being a libertarian, and you could say conservative, i would like you to try to classify just being a conservative with being a radical racist because i know alot of people in texas most being conservative and mexican so all these generilizations get kind of annoying. Racism is not conservativism.

Sorry the last post should be try not to, not try to
lol why is it that you always make typos in thw worst possible locations.

Eleventh generation Southerner here – and a liberal. Some of you paint Southerners with the same broad brush that some Southerners, and others, have used to paint African-Americans. (Wouldn’t I be foolish to assume that all people from Boston were opposed to integration because of the race riots there? How about the African-Americans who were roasted alive on the streets of New York?)

I doubt that most Southerners had slaves prior to the Civil War, but I am willing to be corrected by someone with a reliable cite. And certainly many white Southerners have actively supported Civil Rights legislation and integration.

There were many Confederate soldiers who did not support slavery but fought in the Civil War because of states’ rights issues. My grandfather (the 7th generation) was one of them.

During most of my voting years, I have seen my state send many liberals to the Senate and the House of Representatives. My understanding is that Al Gore never lost an election in Tennessee over a twenty-five year period – until the Presidential election of 2000. Our current governor is a Democrat.

I live in a multi-cultural neighborhood of Latinos, Kurds, African-Americans, Cambodians, Laotians and whites.

If we know what has caused the increase in membership in those churches which can be described as "the relgious right, " we will have a big piece of the puzzle filled in on why the South is voting more conservatively. I wish I knew their techniques for getting the vote out.

Himmler, I don’t believe in any form of censorship but I really hope that you choose not to continue to post here. You are certainly not representative of the Southerners I know.

Here’s an interesting essay dating from 1917 on the differences between the North and the South:

Sir Walter Scott and the South

In it, the author advances the notion (which I have heard elsewhere) that the South derives its romanticized notions of chivalry and honorable warfare from its 19th-century infatuation with Sir Walter Scott. (Ivanhoe, in particular.)

I’ve lived in the South my whole life (expect for a 3 month stint in Allendale, Ill. when I was in 3rd Grade). Those fellow southerners who deny the prevalence of racism here are walking around with blinders. I can’t testify to the level of racism in Northern States; but I can for here. In the course of my life I’ve heard newspaper editors, preachers, school system administrators, elected officials and the average Joe on the street making racist comments as if just because I’m white I’d naturally agree. The casualness of racism here is indicative of its pervasiveness. Bruce_Daddy and others can point to incidents in other places as if it absolves the South of it’s racist past. But it doesn’t. “You did it too” is no excuse.

My best guess to why the South is the way it is goes to religion. The dominance of religion here, particularly the SBC and other fundamentalist churches, is the problem.

Karen Armstrong’s Battle for God takes good look at the motivations of fundamentalists and their sense of being under attack by a secular culture. Contrary to their paranoia, most of us just want to be left alone. But they see not conforming to their beliefs as an attack on them. Since they see change as an attack, they resist it; even when resisting is contrary to their own self interest.

SOCAS is seen as a denial of God, so they distrust a secular government. Fundamentalists were largely politically inactive until the late 70s when Pat Robinson and Jerry Falwell decided that politics is a way to take over the secular culture. Now we have the President sending a video-tape to the SBC congratulating them on being ‘‘faithful servants’’ of God. They pay lip service to religious freedom, but then they belie that with comments like

Meaning they want to make sure we don’t give foreign aid to countries that resist letting them evangelize.

Now explain to me how they believe in the freedom of conscience when they turn around and pass resolutions such as these:

[ul][li] Reiterated the SBC’s opposition to the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion 30 years ago and expressed regret that previous actions had supported abortion.[/li]
[li]Renewed Southern Baptists’ commitment to the biblical model of the family and the permanence of marriage.[/li]
[li] Restated opposition to the legalization of same-sex marriage.[/li][/ul]

What in the world are you talking about?

Oh, and what Zoe said.

Well, none of those things limit freedom of conscience.

All right then, should we agree upon a definition of conservatism?

I submit the following from www.conservatism.com :

And there is a lot more, so I may well be guilty of taking these cornerstone definitions out of context.

Following up on my comments on the previous page, I was quite aware of what seemed to be a tradition of racism, oppression, financial and geographical isolation, and historical amnesia in my own southern town.

It just doesn’t seem fair for me to sit here and say “mainstream southern conservatives therefore endorse all those awful things.” It’s just not true. But I think it might be fair to say that some of those awful things are defended by some very misguided people under the guise of mainstream conservatism.

Anyhow, I leave that site and the above for your consideration.

I particularly liked:

and

And one more time, just because a town has a poor side with mostly black people doesn’t mean that “The Man” keeps them there because of racism. Who’s keeping the “white trash” down?

This is a great, educational thread, and I think a number of very plausible answers to the OP have been advanced.

The “real” answer is, probably, that there is no one real answer. We’re dealing with a complex combination of factors producing a certain result. (Think of the way the staggering complexities of the human genome result in that nebula of improbabilities called “the human body.”)

To contribute something to the discussion:

  1. I would guess that most of the non-South has a traditional of internal migration that contrasts with the Southern attitude. My own family background consists of a sluggish flood of persons moving from Scandinavia, England, and Scotland through the great lakes states to the midwest, and thence to California, all in three or four generations. In a certain unstated sense, wherever we are is just a stopping-place along the road. I have the impression that Southerners have a stronger commitment to living where their families have always lived; and it seems easy to deduce many of the cited attitudes from the kind of society likely to arise under such circumstances.

  2. On conservatism: There are various high-flown definitions of Conservatism and Liberalism, but these amount to saying what they “ought” to be, if they are to be self-consistent. In fact (ie, IMHO!), the deeper truth is that we live in a kind of society that facilitates polarization on almost any issue. We (even “conservatives”) tend to admire upstarts and “the little guy fighting city hall”–not bland conformists. The result is an automatic tendency toward bifurcation. Parts of today’s Right once belonged to yesterday’s Left, and vice versa. The point is that whenever some issue or approach “crosses the line” for pragmatic reasons, the change is one ideology produces a corresponding change in the other–because the hidden drive is always to define oneself in opposition to “the other,” however “the other” might be defined at a given moment in time.
    There follows a good deal of marvellously ingenious backpedalling to make is SEEM that the newly-grafted element logically belonged in its new home from the start.

Many of us will live long enough to delight in, say, the abortion issue switching sides.

Well, in the case of my own town, “The Man” is quite active. I recommend you do a search on Christian Bible Ministries, which is based in Christiansburg, VA. When I was in college in neighboring Blacksburg, VA in 1991, the local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan held a march straight through the middle of the town. My father was in line to become president of the local Lion’s Club, then suddenly resigned from the club altogether for reasons he still won’t disclose today. He’s had a life-long antipathy for the area’s “Tri-Kaps,” as he likes to call them, and has hinted that he won’t participate in any organization that has members who are also part of the Klan. I don’t know for sure if that’s why he dropped out of the Club, which was composed of many of the town’s prominent (white) citizens, but I have my suspicions.

(My father, by the way, is no model of tolerance by any stretch of the imagination, but his stance against the Klan is something I very much admire.)

Regarding the “hoods” outside of the south. My experience in those areas supports the idea that there is an “enclave”-ish makeup of many non-southern towns, but I would also remind everyone that just because the North generally opposed slavery didn’t mean the residents of non-southern towns particularly supported integration or equal treatment for black people.

I would suggest that a lot of black neighborhoods in non-southern towns were created along the exact same lines, and to a lesser degree still have some of the same problems. There does, however, seem to be a modern difference in attitude which is fundamentally different from my southern experiences. I will try to further illustrate those differences at another time.

The Klan has enough power to keep down a race of people? The last klan rally I saw had about 20 people. The current “Klan” is a bunch of goobers that need something to do on Saturday afternoons, not quite a social powerhouse.

It’s so obvious it shouldn’t even be stated, but people hating other people is universal. This has nothing to do with the South being conservative.