# Why is the symbol for arsenic As? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196 "2017-04-25T09:26:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/1 "2017-04-25T09:26:25Z")
Why not Ar? And then As could be used for astatine and the symbols would be a wee bit more rational and less likely to be confused. Before anyone jumps in about Ar being argon, note that the symbol for argon was just A until 1957. Besides which, they knew about arsenic long before argon was discovered. So the symbol Ar was available when they assigned As to arsenic. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/2 "2017-04-25T09:41:34Z")
Symbols weren’t originally assigned systematically, were they? Like names, they were assigned by the discoverer, which is how we ended up with tungsten being W (it has two different names, assigned by two different discoverers). Whomever assigned it an abbreviation which “caught” happened to use As, but to figure out why you’d have to begin by finding out who it was, and then look at the documents in which he did it to see if an explanation crops up. Later when chemical symbols were reviewed systematically, people were already used to “Arsenic is As” so it was kept. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/3 "2017-04-25T09:48:37Z")
Maybe because the origin of the word is _al-zarnikh_, a compound of the Arabic definite article _al-_ and Persian _zarnikh_, the name for the metal (derived from the word for gold, _zar_, because of the strongly yellow-colored As[sub]2[/sub]S[sub]3[/sub] compound called orpiment, which means gold pigment). Somewhere on the way to Europe the z got changed to an s. The symbol As takes its first letter from the Arabic article and the s (which should have been a z) from the original Persian name. As linguists would say, it follows the morpheme boundary. Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/4 "2017-04-25T10:05:27Z")
Jacob Berzelius was the first person to assign letter symbols to elements. He was the one who assigned As to arsenic, Ag to silver, and Au to gold. Later chemists thought it was a good idea and kept most of his symbols, adding new ones as more elements were discovered. There’s some justification for his system: [http://elements.vanderkrogt.net/chemical\_symbols.php](http://elements.vanderkrogt.net/chemical_symbols.php) > [@](#): > > The chemical signs ought to be letters, for the greater facility of writing, and not to disfigure a printed book. Though this last circumstance may not appear of any great importance, it ought to be avoided whenever it can be done. I shall take, therefore, for the chemical sign, the initial letter of the Latin name of each elementary substance: but as several have the same initial letter, I shall distinguish them in the following manner:– > > 1. In the class which I call metalloids, I shall employ the initial letter only, even when this letter is common to the metalloid and some metal. > > 2. In the class of metals, I shall distinguish those that have the same initials with another metal, or a metalloid, by writing the first two letters of the word. > > 3. If the first two letters be common to two metals, I shall, in that case, add to the initial letter the first consonant which they have not in common: > > for example, S = sulphur, Si = silicium, St = stibium (antimony), Sn = stannum (tin), C = carbonicum, Co = cobaltum (cobalt), Cu = cuprum (copper), O = oxygen, Os = osmium, &c. He based his symbols on the Latin names. Arsenic is arsenicum in Latin, which would have the symbol Ar but this is shared with argentum (silver). Hence arsenic gets As and silver gets Ag. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/5 "2017-04-25T11:45:01Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Jacob Berzelius was the first person to assign letter symbols to elements. He was the one who assigned As to arsenic, Ag to silver, and Au to gold. Later chemists thought it was a good idea and kept most of his symbols, adding new ones as more elements were discovered. There’s some justification for his system: > > [History of the chemical symbols and the Periodic Table - Elementymology & Elements Multidict](http://elements.vanderkrogt.net/chemical_symbols.php) > He based his symbols on the Latin names. Arsenic is arsenicum in Latin, which would have the symbol Ar but this is shared with argentum (silver). Hence arsenic gets As and silver gets Ag. Stibium == Sb, not St. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/6 "2017-04-25T11:50:53Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Stibium == Sb, not St. It is now, but Berzelius initially (or at some point) assigned St ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/7 "2017-04-25T12:24:11Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > He based his symbols on the Latin names. Arsenic is arsenicum in Latin, which would have the symbol Ar but this is shared with argentum (silver). Hence arsenic gets As and silver gets Ag. But he could have used Ar for silver (alphabetical order), so it’s at least in part whimsy. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/8 "2017-04-25T12:33:18Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But he could have used Ar for silver (alphabetical order), so it’s at least in part whimsy. Berzelius rule #3. If the first two letters be common to two metals, I shall, in that case, add to the initial letter the first consonant which they have not in common. Ar is common to both arsenicum and argentum, so you go to the first consonant which they don’t have in common, ‘s’ for arsenicum and ‘g’ for argentum. Hence As for arsenic and Ag for silver. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/9 "2017-04-25T12:40:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Symbols weren’t originally assigned systematically, were they? Like names, they were assigned by the discoverer, which is how we ended up with tungsten being W (it has two different names, assigned by two different discoverers). Yes, Tungsten is Wolfram in German and some other European languages. It was discovered by two Spaniards, based on previous research done by a German chemist, from a substance called Wolframite. They chose to call it Wolfram, hence “W”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/10 "2017-04-25T13:33:02Z")
Wow, I never realized that there were actual rules according to which the symbols were determined. I figured it was just the equivalent of a big look-up table, with each assigned basically arbitrarily. And to his point about using letters, the previous convention used astrological symbols, like ☿ and ♄. But those are tough to do in a printing press, if you don’t already have type-pieces for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/11 "2017-04-25T13:42:40Z")
Tough to do in HTML too; they don’t render on my phone. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/12 "2017-04-25T13:46:41Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It is now, but Berzelius initially (or at some point) assigned St According to his own rules he shouldn’t have done, because St is common to both Stibium and Stannum. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/13 "2017-04-25T13:50:01Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > According to his own rules he shouldn’t have done, because St is common to both Stibium and Stannum. Yeah - it looks like he may have only mistakenly used St in some writings. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/14 "2017-04-25T14:16:10Z")
Huh, I know that some ancient web browsers are still around that don’t do Unicode, but I wouldn’t have thought that there’d be any phone browsers that didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/15 "2017-04-25T15:40:34Z")
It doesn’t seem to have trouble with other symbols. So I don’t know what the issue is. Chrome on Android today. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/16 "2017-04-26T04:32:05Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > It doesn’t seem to have trouble with other symbols. So I don’t know what the issue is. Chrome on Android today. Chromium got jealous of the other elements that’s what. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/17 "2017-04-27T04:59:53Z")
So my guess that it involved the way British chemists pronounced arsenic seems to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/18 "2017-04-27T05:43:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Huh, I know that some ancient web browsers are still around that don’t do Unicode, but I wouldn’t have thought that there’d be any phone browsers that didn’t. Any browser new enough to be on a modern phone can do Unicode fine, but if there’s no font installed with the right characters, there isn’t anything the browser can do. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/19 "2017-04-27T17:49:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So my guess that it involved the way British chemists pronounced arsenic seems to be wrong. I was thinking New England chemists. “I put the ahsnic in my cah by the havahd yahd” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196/20 "2017-04-27T18:46:00Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > It doesn’t seem to have trouble with other symbols. So I don’t know what the issue is. Chrome on Android today. Works on Safari on iOS, if we’re keeping score here trying to figure it out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-symbol-for-arsenic-as/785196.md?page=2)