# Why is the U.S. Army changing the basic color of everyday service uniforms AGAIN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795 "2019-05-10T20:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/41 "2019-05-13T13:44:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > From my outside perspective, the common daily Air Force service uniform has been blue and recognizable as pretty much the same uniform—basically a variation of a blue business suit—almost since the Air Force was created. I don’t think the shade of blue has been significantly changed, from a common observer’s perspective. I recall a brief attempt to make the Air Force uniform look more like a Navy uniform, but I don’t actually recall seeing anyone wearing that uniform. > > The common daily Navy uniform has been dark (“navy”) blue in the winter and white in the summer consistently for many decades. I know there’s also a khaki-colored uniform, but I still recognize the navy blue or white uniforms as the commonly known navy uniform. > > From my point of view, I don’t see Air Force and Navy uniforms changing every few years. The every day uniform worn by officers commuting to work or attending meetings in government offices has stayed very consistent in overall appearance. > > There might have been minor changes from year-to-year amounting to an overall evolution, but I don’t recall any radical change in basic color, and certainly not multiple times. The USAF switched up the cut of the dress uniform some years ago and tried to go to [Navy-ish cuff rank insignia, and a jacket that was more civilian-cut.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Gen_Merrill_McPeak_1993.jpg/800px-Gen_Merrill_McPeak_1993.jpg) Needless to say, this didn’t go over well- there was a lot of racket about it looking like an airline pilot uniform, etc… [Here’s a site that actually shows the uniforms over time](http://usafeenlistedheritage.org/history/uniforms/)- basically from inception to the early 1990s they had the same uniform, just in slightly different shades of blue. Then they sort of switched to that janky airline pilot uniform, and then since 1994, they’ve had one that looks more or less like the original, except minus the upper pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/42 "2019-05-13T14:03:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > From my outside perspective, the common daily Air Force service uniform has been blue and recognizable as pretty much the same uniform—basically a variation of a blue business suit—almost since the Air Force was created. I don’t think the shade of blue has been significantly changed, from a common observer’s perspective. I recall a brief attempt to make the Air Force uniform look more like a Navy uniform, but I don’t actually recall seeing anyone wearing that uniform. > > The common daily Navy uniform has been dark (“navy”) blue in the winter and white in the summer consistently for many decades. I know there’s also a khaki-colored uniform, but I still recognize the navy blue or white uniforms as the commonly known navy uniform. > > From my point of view, I don’t see Air Force and Navy uniforms changing every few years. The every day uniform worn by officers commuting to work or attending meetings in government offices has stayed very consistent in overall appearance. > > There might have been minor changes from year-to-year amounting to an overall evolution, but I don’t recall any radical change in basic color, and certainly not multiple times. Sure, but there is more than one AF uniform. Perhaps you didn’t see it, but those of us actually in the AF, the changes were annoying and sometimes pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/43 "2019-05-13T14:51:02Z")
> [@Dana\_Scully](#): > > I like the classic, WWII look. I’m glad they’re reverting to the classic Army look. The classic Army look is to wear blue uniforms. Since 1775. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/44 "2019-05-13T15:14:18Z")
Well… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/n3Q6RyDFAJI/maxresdefault.jpg "Evolution of the United States Army Uniform - HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Q6RyDFAJI) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/45 "2019-05-13T15:16:45Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Meanwhile, Navy came up with [working uniforms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Working_Uniform#/media/File:090707-N-5345W-103_-_RADM_Michelle_Howard,_commander,_Expeditionary_Strike_Group_(ESG)_2,_visits_with_junior_enlisted_sailors_during_a_visit_to_the_amphibious_dock_landing_ship_USS_Fort_McHenry_(LSD-43).jpg) with camo, making them awfully Army- or Marine-esque. > > The rationale for a service needing camouflage uniforms when its personnel rarely see the folks who are trying to kill them? It hides grease spots better. :dubious: Not sure why they went away from the classic denim dungarees/chambray shirt/dixie cup uniforms… they’re classic, they probably weren’t terribly expensive, and they looked comfortable. Apparently with the phase-out of the NWU Type 1 (that weird-ass blue camouflage), they’re looking at alternate two piece uniforms (as opposed to the coveralls like sub crews wear), one of which is reminiscent of the dungarees uniform. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/46 "2019-05-13T18:17:10Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Khaki shirt and slacks, green jacket (maybe even belted). The khaki parts are called “pink”. Yeah, I have my dad’s old WWII uniform, and I used to wear his “pinks.” I wasn’t sure it was his actual uniform, though, because I didn’t have to hem them. He was 6’ and I’m 5’4" on a good day. But the fabric definitely has a certain pinkish tint. Subtle, but it’s there. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/47 "2019-05-14T11:13:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not sure why they went away from the classic denim dungarees/chambray shirt/dixie cup uniforms… they’re classic, they probably weren’t terribly expensive, and they looked comfortable. I found them to be so. When I came in, they were transitioning from the dungaree work uniform to what was called a utility uniform (not seen at all in [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Working_Uniform) article; it must have been short-lived). It consisted of a a blue cotton pullover shirt with a couple buttons at the neck, kind of like a polo shirt, and dark blue trousers, also cotton. It could be worn with the dixie cup hat but I preferred a ballcap. They were what I was issued in boot camp in 1972 and the story we were told was that they offered better protection against flash burns which is why they were cotton instead of a cotton-poly blend. The shirt came only in long-sleeve but any exchange tailor shop could convert them to short sleeve for a nominal fee. You could still get on your own dime and wear the dungaree uniform with the denim bell bottoms and light blue chambray shirt, so I did. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/48 "2019-05-14T13:43:36Z")
So all military personnel have to discard their uniforms and buy/get all new ones? What happens to the old ones? That’s an awful lot of serviceable clothing. Do they just get pulped? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/49 "2019-05-14T15:23:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So all military personnel have to discard their uniforms and buy/get all new ones? What happens to the old ones? That’s an awful lot of serviceable clothing. Do they just get pulped? Usually, the old ones are still valid for a transition period that is often measured in years. After that, they remain the property of the service member; they simply can’t be worn as uniform. If they’re “de-milled” (de-militarized, stripped of all identifiable military insignia) they can be worn as civvies, but for the service uniform that isn’t very useful. (Who would wear that under any circumstance other than direct orders?) Old utility or battle dress is often repurposed as casual clothing. My little ones used my old Air Force blues shirts as finger-painting smocks after I retired. I wore out my forest camo BDUs as gardening clothes. As to the costs of buying the new uniforms, enlisted personnel receive an annual uniform allowance that they can save up to buy what they need. Officers pay out-of-pocket (but they get paid appreciably better than most enlisteds). ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/50 "2019-05-14T15:32:32Z")
They have to find something to do with the phenomenal amount of money they are getting from Congress. If you complain, though, you are a bleeding heart liberal who doesn’t give a damn about the security of the nation and want to weaken our defense and make us vulnerable. So, as a result, we give out contracts that have a phenomenal cost factor, and we get rid of designs for which we pay millions and even billions before they are even turned into practical equipment that can be used in battle. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/51 "2019-05-14T17:17:09Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Usually, the old ones are still valid for a transition period that is often measured in years. The green class A jacket was still authorized for wear for 6 years after the initial change to the blue ASU. They start phasing in uniforms by issuing them to troops in basic training. A long transition like that in practical terms means that most troops will either start off with the new uniform or leave the army before they have to buy a new one. Those that are staying in for a career have years to save up their clothing allowance to buy a new uniform. Despite being paid more officers have it a little tougher. They don’t get a clothing allowance and when there is a new uniform they are “highly encouraged” to get it immediately. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/52 "2019-05-14T17:17:36Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So all military personnel have to discard their uniforms and buy/get all new ones? What happens to the old ones? That’s an awful lot of serviceable clothing. Do they just get pulped? When I was in the U.S. Army Reserves, I was issued four sets of BDUs (standard camo uniforms) in Basic Training. We went through a “pre-mobilization” in 2002, and I was issued four more sets of BDUs. We were actually mobilized in 2003, at which point I (and everyone in my unit) were issued 4 sets of DCUs (desert camo). I was deployed again in 2005, and was issued 4 more sets of DCUs. Then, while in country, the unit I was assigned to was transitioned to ACUs. I was issued 4 sets of those. The ACUs replaced both the BDUs and the DCUs. Those were technically authorized for wear during a transition period, but both the unit I was assigned to and my home Reserve unit had local commander’s directives that only the ACUs were to be worn after they were issued. All of those BDUs and DCUs I had been issued were “personal issue items”, and effectively became my personal property. I knew guys that sold theirs to military surplus stores, but, as you might imagine, the surplus stores were swamped with old uniforms, so they didn’t pay very much for them; I considered selling them more to get rid of them for the few dollars I would have gotten, but never got around to it. I have a set of “sterilized” BDUs I use for yard work. I’ve got a footlocker and a couple of boxes I haven’t looked at in years, somewhere in my junk room, filled with uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/53 "2019-05-14T17:19:56Z")
Cynic that I am, I will observe that every uniform change means somebody gets paid to manufacture all those new uniforms. And them more people get paid to sew on the various patches, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/54 "2019-05-14T17:43:52Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > If you complain, though, you are a bleeding heart liberal who doesn’t give a damn about the security of the nation and want to weaken our defense and make us vulnerable. > > So, as a result, we give out contracts that have a phenomenal cost factor, and we get rid of designs for which we pay millions and even billions before they are even turned into practical equipment that can be used in battle. **Moderator Warning** **Jasmine** , you’ve been warned multiple times for political comments in General Questions. This is another official warning. Once again, I have to tell you your continued violation of the rules will put your posting privileges in jeopardy. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/55 "2019-05-14T18:13:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > From my point of view, I want a particular organization, particularly ones as large and old and important as the uniformed services, to look pretty much the same from decade-to-decade. > > Even if minor style points or materials evolve a little from year to year for practical purposes, I think the overall impression that the uniform gives should be consistent over many decades. To me, that’s inherent in the concept of a uniform. > > Why are basic style elements, like color, changing so often? It’s an interesting philosophical question – the military leans on traditional as a recruiting tool, but from a practical perspective, what organization in 2019 can get by without adapting to change at a breakneck speed? The army of today has changed dramatically from the army of 2019, and has almost nothing in common with the army of 1979. In many ways, reluctance to abandon traditions is a huge impediment to an effective fighting force. There’s nothing that elicits more gripes than changes to the uniform, and I’ll admit some of the changes I’ve witnessed over my years of service have seemed pointless at best. Mostly, though, I see an attempt to respond to complaints in a manner than you’d expect from a huge, lumbering bureaucracy – slow to react and doesn’t get the details quite right. And in this case, like **DinoR** explained, the Army didn’t just capriciously change the color of the uniform, they were trying to save soldiers money. It doesn’t seem like it worked, which is about typical for uniform changes, but you know, they were trying. I think, though, that as soon as someone says “You can’t change the uniform color because of tradition!” that almost becomes reason enough to change it. It’s a little thing but it’s symbolic, and if people can get used to changes in the uniform then I think maybe they’ll be more receptive to changes that actually matter. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/56 "2019-05-14T18:28:20Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > …what organization in 2019 can get by without adapting to change at a breakneck speed? The army of today has changed dramatically from the army of 2019… Wow, that IS fast! What is the major wearing on the right in this pic - is that Army pregnancy wear?: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/US\_Army\_new\_pinks\_and\_greens\_uniform.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/US_Army_new_pinks_and_greens_uniform.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/57 "2019-05-14T18:32:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Wow, that IS fast! > > What is the major wearing on the right in this pic - is that Army pregnancy wear?: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/US\_Army\_new\_pinks\_and\_greens\_uniform.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/US_Army_new_pinks_and_greens_uniform.jpg) D’oh! Yeah, everyone hates [the pregnancy uniforms](https://www.shopmyexchange.com/army-maternity-tunic/3437529). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/58 "2019-05-15T04:19:28Z")
Hmm. With velcro for nursing, I’m guessing? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/59 "2019-05-15T04:35:58Z")
How much do new uniforms cost, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795/60 "2019-05-15T05:10:04Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I think, though, that as soon as someone says “You can’t change the uniform color because of tradition!” that almost becomes reason enough to change it. It’s a little thing but it’s symbolic, and if people can get used to changes in the uniform then I think maybe they’ll be more receptive to changes that actually matter. Or maybe if you keep making pointless and arbitrary changes to uniforms, people will reject all changes as pointless and arbitrary, including those that aren’t. Troops need to feel confident that their superiors are making decisions based on logic and good sense. If they start rolling their eyes for uniform changes, they’ll also roll their for, say, new tactics, or new sexual harassment regulations - “Ugh, there they go again.” I know: I’ve been there. A good military organization finds a balance between evolution and continuity by changing what’s needed and not changing what isn’t. On edit: I think we may be veering a bit from GQ. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-u-s-army-changing-the-basic-color-of-everyday-service-uniforms-again/833795.md?page=4)