# Why is the US so religious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846 "2005-05-14T18:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/21 "2005-05-14T22:30:08Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > OK, so you’ve defined ‘modern’. How do you perceive the general approaches to religion in western Europe and in America, from 1945 onwards? Not being my _forte_, I can’t really comment on that. However, my point is that this divergence of the relative predisposition to belief between America and Europe began long before WW2, though I have no problem accepting an argument that the war itself might have made the division deeper. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/22 "2005-05-14T22:31:27Z")
> [@](#): > > relative predisposition to belief Should be “relative predisposition to religious belief.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/23 "2005-05-15T02:14:00Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Man, I live here, and have no idea how it’s come to this point. Rather, how it’s been allowed to get to this point. It didn’t come to be this way, it has always been this way. Since the beginning of this country religion, and religous freedom has been an important part of life in the U.S. The fundamentals are very strong in their beliefs, just like the secularists that oppose them. What is going on is a struggle between the two opposing belief systems. Each think they are absolutely right on all issues. The secularists believe they are backed by scientific fact, but they are not. The religionists believe they are backed by God’s word – the Bible, but they are not. So, let the games begin. When one or the other wins it will be over, unless wiser heads prevail in some comprimises. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/24 "2005-05-15T02:20:47Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Should be “relative predisposition to religious belief.” There is no more a relative predisposition to religious belief than there is a relative predisposition to non-religious belief. We are the products of the teachings of our parents, schools, and society. Only when we build courage enough to think for ourselves will we realize the truth. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/25 "2005-05-15T02:47:20Z")
I’m talking about the relative predispositions that exist between the two societies (if one can consider Europe to be a monolithic society), not between/amongst individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/26 "2005-05-15T03:11:04Z")
I believe that nationalism aside, most Europeans are more independent and more prone to think for themselves. IMHO, most “religious” followers (in America) are just that, they are not capable of free indenpendent thought and are willing to be led along by their “priest”, “minister” whatever. We have, unfortunately, become a majority of people who have decided to let others do our thinking and the “others” are our religious leaders. Way too many followers and not enough people willing to actually think through what they are told (on issues of gays, abortion, oh and how about the evils of war, etc., etc.) Yes, I will probably go to hell but under the present situation who cares! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/27 "2005-05-15T03:18:37Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > But on the other side of the Atlantic, you are passing religion-based amendments to make sure gays can’t marry, your school boards want to teach religious alternatives to evolution, and abortion is actually a hot political issue, which is nearly incomprehensible to me. One thing to remember about the United States is that we’re made up of 50 individual states who share power with a Federal Government. Each of the 50 states have their own seperate government which must not violate the Federal Constitution but other then that are pretty much free to govern how they wish. In fact they have to govern because the Feds are not in charge of education, state law enforcement, zoning laws, or a myriad of other functions we expect a state to perform. Even within a state there are often hundreds of different school boards making decisions for their districts. In the Dallas/Ft. Worth area there are seperate school districts and of course school boards for Dallas, Plano, Richardson, Allen, Carrollton, Wylie, Waxahachie, Mesquite, Farmersville, The Colony, Little Elm, Arlington, many more I can’t even begin to think of right now. Of course the D/FW is a pretty populous area but I think you can appreciate that we have a lot of school districts and they’re all run by different people, subject to certain state guidelines of course. When I was in high school in 1992 there were some parents that wanted intelligent design to be part of the science curriculum. The school board paid attention but ultimately decided it shouldn’t be part of the curriculum. I’ve heard of some school boards attempted to push non-science into the classrooms but I believe it is far less common then you might think. The fact that it makes the news at all is probably a good sign that it isn’t that common. School boards hardly make the news in this country unless something odd is going on. Marc ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/28 "2005-05-15T03:55:43Z")
Is the US really that Religious? IMHO It’s more a matter of perspective. Maybe as compared to your society we are, but compare the US to the Middle East, Asia, or even Latin America and the answer would be a resounding no. European abortion rights - Portugal, Ireland, Poland, Malta are the countries in Europe where abortion is still forbidden. Same sex marriages are only recognized in Belgium & the Netherlands. Civil unions are more widely recognized. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex\_marriage#Europe\_2](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#Europe_2) But surely there’s more points to consider when rating a society’s level of religious fervor than just those two. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/29 "2005-05-15T04:40:29Z")
I think American society is very religious, and I’ll give some examples to illustrate what I mean when I say that: When John Paul II died, one of my professors happened to be in Italy at the time. Just a few miles from the Vatican itself, what did he see? People going on about their lives. Maybe the occasional portrait on someone’s porch or something. Here? It was all over the news 24 hours a day. In the United States, there is a 90% turnover rate of religion from one generation to the next. In other words, of those parents who describe themselves as being part of some religious group, 90% of the time their children describe themselves as being part of the same religious group. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/30 "2005-05-15T04:42:04Z")
Argh. Forgot my cite on that second point: Zuckerman, _Invitation to the Sociology of Religion_. ---
**Author:** ![Foible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Foible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foible)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/31 "2005-05-15T04:56:10Z")
Perhaps it’s because we have a religous free market here. They all compete for members so they’re constantly tweaking the product to attract members. If we had a government aproved religion we’d only be praying at a third grade level. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/32 "2005-05-15T05:02:10Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > The irony is that the US religious organizations of today fight so hard against the first amendement, which is probably the key to their relative succsess here when compared to how thier European counterparts have faired. I think that’s a severe mischaracterization. They fight hard against what they perceive to be _abuses_ of the First Amendment. It is entirely possible to support certain applications of a law, but not others, depending on the individual circumstances. It’s not always an all-or-nothing deal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/33 "2005-05-15T05:15:04Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I think that’s a severe mischaracterization. They fight hard against what they perceive to be _abuses_ of the First Amendment. > > It is entirely possible to support certain applications of a law, but not others, depending on the individual circumstances. It’s not always an all-or-nothing deal. Actually, that’s exactly what it is. “Congress shall pass **NO** law…” There is no such thing as an “abuse” of an inalienable right, only the exercise of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/34 "2005-05-15T06:49:25Z")
I’ll venture into this debate, bearing in mind that I’m a canuck with no US perspective… Nontheless, I’ve puzzled over this myself. I wonder how much of this has to do with media indoctrination. I have no doubt that there are a great many religious Americans. The change I’ve noticed is in the equation between religion and politics. I’ll admit, to my great embarrasement, that I watch CNN, and I’ve been amazed at the shift since the Clinton administration to religious-oriented topics. I have nothing against religious people, but I do tend to wonder if the media and the republican party are exploiting “faith” as a marketing and ratings grabber. IMHO, the less attention paid to the “drift towards the religious right” the less important the drift becomes. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/35 "2005-05-15T08:00:17Z")
I think, in part, it may have to do with population densities. America has vast swathes of land where there aren’t many people living there but, taken cumulatively, form the bulk of the American population. I think in any society, the larger cities tend to be more secular and less rigid about their religions. In europe, you would be hardpressed to find any place thats less than 2 - 3 hours away from a major urban center whereas the US allows a greter deal of insularity between city and country dwellers. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/36 "2005-05-15T08:35:05Z")
I’m not so sure that the OP is asking the right question. It seems to me that it is Europe that is vastly less religious than the rest of the world. Christianity is strong in the Americas and Africa; Islam is strong in Africa, the Middle East, and near Asia; Hinduism (?) is strong in India; and I don’t know about the Far East as religion is suppressed in China. So why is religion so weak in Western Europe? I think it’s because in my limited experience the clergy are a largely a bunch of tossers. It seems to me that religion has a very large social element and the current clergy ignore this. A service doesn’t have to be enjoyable; it does have to be engaging. For example, one of my father’s cousins died a few years ago. He was a major local figure who had done a lot of charitable work and the church was packed. When it came for the pastor to speak, it was quite clear that he hadn’t prepared anything and he stumbled through an ad-hoc homily. When the collection plate was passed around he got very little. In contrast, another of my father’s cousins died and was cremated in a civil ceremony. The lady who ran the service knew her stuff and it was a good service. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/37 "2005-05-15T10:44:50Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > In [this Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=316481), I asked a question which I will rephrase to better suit Great Debates. > > How come religion is such a big issue in the US? In much of the developed world, and certainly most of Northern and Western Europe, religion is or is becoming a political nonissue. Anyone who opposed abortion on religious grounds here in Sweden would be seen as a rather quaint and odd person. We have civil unions between same-sex partners, and there was never any outcry one way or the other; it just happened. _Spain_, machisto Catholic country as it is, has gender-neutral marriage laws now. > > Sure there are a few holdouts, like Ireland, but they’re the exception. > > But on the other side of the Atlantic, you are passing religion-based amendments to make sure gays can’t marry, your school boards want to teach religious alternatives to evolution, and abortion is actually a hot political issue, which is nearly incomprehensible to me. > > Why is this? Why the US? There were many good replies to your question,but if I can, I would add: The fundamentlists are afraid that their beliefs are being trampled on, and so out of fear they are more on the front line. I believe if their Faith was as strong as they would like us to believe, they wouldn’t worry. It doesn’t bother me if someone does not believe the same thing as I do, and I step forward to say most American’s feel that way. Crime hasn’t been reduced, but they worry about the world going to Hell in a hand basket. There has always been crime going back to the Cain and Abel story. I believe that it sems worse because there are more people, but I doubt the percentage per population is worse, plus, now we get news from all over the world,not just our local neighborhood. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/38 "2005-05-15T12:00:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t know about the Far East as religion is suppressed in China. [nitpick] There’s a lot more to the Far East than China. I think the Japanese, Koreans, Thai, Indonesians, Malaysians, Vietnamese, etc. imight have something to say about that. (and as I have no real idea about their daily level of overall religious observance, carry on). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/39 "2005-05-15T12:13:30Z")
> [@](#): > > So why is religion so weak in Western Europe? Because their belief in secular ideologies is so strong - they’ve just exchanged one set of beliefs for another. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846/40 "2005-05-15T12:16:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Because their belief in secular ideologies is so strong - they’ve just exchanged one set of beliefs for another. Anecdotal: Our belief in secular ideologies is not very strong at all, actually. Apathy is the reigning ideology here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-us-so-religious/303846.md?page=3)