# Why Is The USA Exceptional Among First World Countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007 "2010-08-21T22:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/81 "2010-08-28T09:16:14Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > We also produce most of the worlds wealth - 14 trillion dollars annual GDP. A bit less than the next 4 nations combined (Japan, China, Germany and France). > > Unless you consider the EU to be a unified entity. I don’t. At least not in the same way the United States of America is considered a unified entity. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/82 "2010-08-28T19:31:11Z")
The people of the USA are exceptional in that they cling so doggedly to the idea that their country is measurably “number one.” They really have difficulty in accepting it where they might not be “number one.” They so easily gloss over realities, or make selective measurement, or simply ignore the value of difference, just so that they can maintain this ideology of “number one.” As one example, you’ll find that most people in the US think that their country has the fastest wireless infrastructure, and no clue as to which country in fact does have it. People in other countries aren’t obsessed with this so much. They will say, “[my country] isn’t number one, but [my country] is the best all the same.” They don’t need the ideology of “number one” to love their country. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/83 "2010-08-29T03:31:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > > > We are not the envy of Western Europe or the British Commonwealth. Nearly everyone who migrates here comes from the Third World. > > Is that not because you restrict immigration from Europe? It’s not so much a deliberate restriction as it is that the previous laws did favor European immigrants, until 1965 when the quotas were changed to more or less agree with proportionate global populations. Which, in effect, does mean that nearly everyone now comes from the Third World, because that’s what most of the world basically is. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/84 "2010-08-29T03:34:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Unburdened of all that socialist bullshit that our allies abroad have to fund, healthcare, etc, we rock. Our 5% of the world’s population consumes 35% of the world’s resources and we have the SUVs to prove it. Envy of the world. > > FYI, we also manufacture most of the worlds stuff - 1.8 trillion dollars worth in 2007, which is 15% of the total manufacturing output of the top 12 nations. China is a close second with 1.1 trillion dollars worth. > > We also produce most of the worlds wealth - 14 trillion dollars annual GDP. A bit less than the next 4 nations combined (Japan, China, Germany and France). How come our trade balance is so poor then? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/85 "2010-08-29T03:36:01Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > FYI, we also manufacture most of the worlds stuff - 1.8 trillion dollars worth in 2007, which is 15% of the total manufacturing output of the top 12 nations. China is a close second with 1.1 trillion dollars worth. > > > > We also produce most of the worlds wealth - 14 trillion dollars annual GDP. A bit less than the next 4 nations combined (Japan, China, Germany and France). > > How come our trade balance is so poor then? We’ve defined debt as wealth? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/86 "2010-08-29T03:37:46Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Imho, it’s because that the US is just about the only country in the world where individual effort is rewarded, in the absence of social, political, religious or parental control. Individual effort is rewarded, sure…AND meeting the right people, fitting in, and being the guy or gal who can naturally take charge. Just hard work doesn’t do it. I’ve seen too many people live lives of honest struggle and 60 hour weeks, and still have nothing to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/87 "2010-08-29T03:39:40Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > How come our trade balance is so poor then? > > We’ve defined debt as wealth? But everyone does that…just about every country defines its money supply as promissory notes of the central bank. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/88 "2010-08-29T05:55:52Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Size (3000 miles across), population (5 times a European country, combined with the size which also makes it very sparsely populated in comparison to a crowded European country), location (masive oceans on either side, and lots of natural resources), and convenient geographic distance from the two world wars, I’d guess. All of those factors are hugely beneficial individually, and all four together are marvellous. Together they create a non-bombed environement with vast resources and little competition for them, making those resources plentiful and cheap. We enjoyed a non-bombed environment for sure. But it’s amazing to think how, after we beat the Germans into surrendering by largely destroying their cities, we proceeded to destroy most of our own by our collective choices–enter suburbia. Meanwhile, the Germans speedily rebuilt theirs and they are now vibrant, comfortable places to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/89 "2010-08-29T06:08:24Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Other then that its standard of living and quality of life are poorer for the average person then those living in other Western nations. I have to agree with this. Over recent years, I’m getting the impression that many more “average” Europeans travel here or to other overseas countries. By contrast, most of us don’t dare take such long, expensive trips to faraway places. For one thing the dollar is perennially too weak, and for another, we might lose our health insurance or find we’ve become redundant at the office when we get back. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/90 "2010-08-29T06:18:18Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The people of the USA are exceptional in that they cling so doggedly to the idea that their country is measurably “number one.” They really have difficulty in accepting it where they might not be “number one.” They so easily gloss over realities, or make selective measurement, or simply ignore the value of difference, just so that they can maintain this ideology of “number one.” Believe me, the people who insist this is true are: (1) the actual winners, who have achieved unassailable security and success, and therefore, it is true for them. (2) the millions and millions of strugglers and strivers who believe everything that the people identified above say. That’s not all of us by any means. The broad brush gets a little tiring; it’s like the times during the Bush years when it frequently seemed as if I, personally, was being accused of re-electing GWB. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/91 "2010-08-29T15:17:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > … > > But your theory that the creation of the United States was a way for wealthy landowners to consolidate their control is much harder to reconcile with the historical evidence. For one, they put the thing to the most democratic popular vote the world had ever known. In many ratifying states, women were allowed to vote, as well as non-property-holders including freemen. Why do that, if it is just a power grab? For another, very little in the Constitution protects their interests as apart from the general welfare. They didn’t protect slavery explicitly in the Constitution precisely because they were already divided over the issue. They set no property requirements for federal office, or as a federal requirement for voting. If they were trying to solidify their oligarchic positions, they did a terrible job of it. The Constitution is simply an anti-democratic document. As Madison roughly put it, the govt’s purpose is to protect the property of the “opulent” from the, as Hamilton put it, the “Beast”. The Senate was appointed by the state oligarchies. The House offered “representation” to the masses on a “divide and conquer” (Madison, again) agenda. The electorate was grudgingly extended over the next two centuries as it became economically advisable and politically necessary. Better a mass of (more or less) of contented consumers than armed anarchists. > [@](#): > > Which really gets to the fatal flaw of your theory: that it is simply anachronistic. You basically assert a Marxist theory of the founding when capitalism was not yet born. The disparity in wealth between the richest and median American at the time was several factors smaller than even Marx’s day. There was no unified oligarchic class “owning vast lands” with monolithic interests. There were a bunch of disparate interests based on varying geographies, economic interests, and ideas about government, that resulted in the compromise document we know today. Capitalism arrived with agriculture about 10k years ago. Historically since, 90% of the population have toiled to benefit 10%. Marx merely took note of the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/92 "2010-08-29T21:58:19Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Compared with Europe and the rest of the world’s arms exporters, the USA _is_ exceptional. > > > > Unburdened of all that socialist bullshit that our allies abroad have to fund, healthcare, etc, we rock. Our 5% of the world’s population consumes 35% of the world’s resources and we have the SUVs to prove it. Envy of the world. > > We are not the envy of Western Europe or the British Commonwealth. Nearly everyone who migrates here comes from the Third World. > > The United States is a great country to be rich in. Otherwise, I cannot think of anything that is exceptionally desirable about this country. In many respects people in other first world countries live better than we do. They have less poverty, lower crime rates, and better health. Communist China out competes us economically while buying up our national debt. They out compete us mostly by having still, for the most part, cheap exploited labor to drive their exports, and also support a comfortable, middle class lifestyle for perhaps 10% of their population. Which is, basically, where we’ll end up metaphorically speaking, unless social democracy ever gains political traction here. Jobs get outsourced and off-shored in Europe too, but not as much. European governments don’t want to be on the hook for all those unemployment and welfare benefits, nor can they fund their UHC programs if unemployment is too high, so they institute policies that make outsourcing less attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/93 "2010-08-29T22:07:08Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@sisu](#): > > > > Thank Dog that we got the convicts and not the born agains! > > Hey! We’re having a civil conversation here and you bring that stuff up. > > Gotta point? I actually think it’s quite relevant. The argument can be made that the whole Calvinist-Protestant-work-ethic thing has been absorbed into the very fabric of society, so that personal misfortune or poverty is almost always blamed on laziness or poor morals. If personal responsibility is the be all and end all of personal success and security, then the need to skew the system for more equitable income distribution is perceived as negligible or non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/94 "2010-08-29T22:11:12Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@guizot](#): > > > > The people of the USA are exceptional in that they cling so doggedly to the idea that their country is measurably “number one.” They really have difficulty in accepting it where they might not be “number one.” They so easily gloss over realities, or make selective measurement, or simply ignore the value of difference, just so that they can maintain this ideology of “number one.” > > Believe me, the people who insist this is true are: > > (1) the actual winners, who have achieved unassailable security and success, and therefore, it is true for them. > > (2) the millions and millions of strugglers and strivers who believe everything that the people identified above say. **guizot** , for some reason I thought you were Norwegian. I think I have you confused with someone else. But still, I stand by my point. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/95 "2010-08-31T00:13:33Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Hey! We’re having a civil conversation here and you bring that stuff up. > > > > Gotta point? > > I actually think it’s quite relevant. The argument can be made that the whole Calvinist-Protestant-work-ethic thing has been absorbed into the very fabric of society, so that personal misfortune or poverty is almost always blamed on laziness or poor morals. If personal responsibility is the be all and end all of personal success and security, then the need to skew the system for more equitable income distribution is perceived as negligible or non-existent. Proof of citizenship, please. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/96 "2010-08-31T00:30:54Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Hey! We’re having a civil conversation here and you bring that stuff up. > > > > Gotta point? > > I actually think it’s quite relevant. The argument can be made that the whole Calvinist-Protestant-work-ethic thing has been absorbed into the very fabric of society, so that personal misfortune or poverty is almost always blamed on laziness or poor morals. If personal responsibility is the be all and end all of personal success and security, then the need to skew the system for more equitable income distribution is perceived as negligible or non-existent. Que eff tee, **Ess of Pee**. And the rules of our political discourse say we can’t even bring it up 'cause the Calvinist Protestants will get all butthurt. Like they’re not now. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/97 "2010-08-31T00:38:49Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > I actually think it’s quite relevant. The argument can be made that the whole Calvinist-Protestant-work-ethic thing has been absorbed into the very fabric of society, so that personal misfortune or poverty is almost always blamed on laziness or poor morals. If personal responsibility is the be all and end all of personal success and security, then the need to skew the system for more equitable income distribution is perceived as negligible or non-existent. > > Que eff tee, **Ess of Pee**. And the rules of our political discourse say we can’t even bring it up 'cause the Calvinist Protestants will get all butthurt. Like they’re not now. I know you speak for yourself. OK, reluctantly, for me too. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/98 "2010-08-31T02:52:58Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > I actually think it’s quite relevant. The argument can be made that the whole Calvinist-Protestant-work-ethic thing has been absorbed into the very fabric of society, so that personal misfortune or poverty is almost always blamed on laziness or poor morals. If personal responsibility is the be all and end all of personal success and security, then the need to skew the system for more equitable income distribution is perceived as negligible or non-existent. > > Proof of citizenship, please. I don’t see what it would prove, since I could be a U.S. citizen who’s emigrated. But still, why not? Here you go. First, [my SDMB Portrait Gallery picture](http://www.nouilles.info/sdpix/2109.html). Second, here’s my [passport photo](http://s494.photobucket.com/albums/rr308/DeathB4D_Calf/?action=view¤t=POC.jpg), of course with my RL identity covered up, but you can see it’s a U.S. passport. In case it wasn’t clear, my intention was not to extol the role of Calvinism or the Protestant work ethic in American political and social life, but the opposite. I think it’s excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/99 "2010-08-31T02:59:01Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Que eff tee, **Ess of Pee**. And the rules of our political discourse say we can’t even bring it up 'cause the Calvinist Protestants will get all butthurt. Like they’re not now. “QUE EFF TEE”, huh, what? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/100 "2010-08-31T05:04:50Z")
So. Are you into jazz, anthropology, archeology or things more devious? I do not want to get personal. Let’s get that straight. But, I see in you a shadow of the past cast by present Light. That’s all I see in me. That’s my story and yadayada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007.md?page=6)