# Why is the USPS so inefficient? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241 "2002-07-28T15:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/21 "2002-07-29T01:01:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by webguy1000 \* > The percentage increase. I do not feel my postal service quality has improved 50% over the last ten years. So if the quality of a product or serice goes up, that’s justification for a price increase? Simple math tells me that five percentage points per year for ten years isn’t too bad, at least from my perspective. Then again, I can remember double-digit inflation, but my wages did not jump as fast. > [@](#): > > Surely if the government will bail out the Airlines, it will aid its own postal service. Besides that, the terrorism issues of the last 11 months have little to do with the quarter-after-quarter loss the USPS has exhibited over the past ten years. Shame on you for using terrorism as an excuse. I suppose you’ll want the USPS under the new homeland security department too, eh? The airlines are private industry. We have a private industry president. I’m willing to bet Bush would rather privatize the USPS and let the free market make it sink/swim then bail them out as a government agency. As for the airlines, they carry quite a bit more than just people and the mail. I think you’re mixing fish and bicycles. 🙂 Now, can you cite the actual figures about the “quarter-after-quarter loss the USPS has exhibited over the past ten years,” please? As for shaming me, you are misdirected. Perhaps reading the news about what anthrax cost the USPS is in order for you. It cost them more than just revenue. And what does homeland security have to do with the original issue? > [@](#): > > What I believe you are unintentionally uncovering is that we all pay equal prices for shipment, anywhere in the US. This is an approach no business would ever dare take. **I** want to pay the price for **my** package to go from point A to B, not the distributed cost of every package going to/from every point in the US. A person should pay more if they wish to mail a package to the middle of nowhere. Others already have explained the holes in this argument. Now here’s another. Let’s privatize the USPS, and make all shipments (postcards, letters, packages, other things) postal rates be based on weight/distance as you suggest. Any thoughts who would lose in the venture? Do you live out in the boonies? Well, tough. That’s what you get for living outside of NYC, LA, Chicago, yadda, yadda. Let’s go another step. My company decides to do a partnership deal with the privatized post office. I’m a very big company everyone uses (telephone, bank, whatever). All bills I send out to say the south side of Chicago, North Philly, southcentral LA all have bill payment addresses on the other side of the country, while folks who live in the upscale zipcodes get bill payment addresses in their own town. So the rich folks pay a quarter to mail their bills while the po folk pay a dollar to mail their bills across country. But since the actual cost to deliver nationwide isn’t correspondingly more expensive, you kick back 25 cents to me. The private PO makes more money off the po folks and so do I. Won’t happen you say? Are you sure it doesn’t happen already? After all, according to your views of debate, you prove me wrong. 🙂 > [@](#): > > I’m not talking about the efficiency/government corruption of state organizations overseas. I’m talking about the USPS. Comparing it to crap and saying “at least it’s not crap” is as vapid an argument as “perhaps the price of a stamp has been abnormally low for too long.” Why do you ssume that subsidized businesses overseas must have a government corruption link? Got any cites to back up this claim. I’m sure the folks at Airbus really appreciate it it knowing their business only exists through corruption. > [@](#): > > The USPS needs to behave like a business, instead of a bureaucratic body. During every period of economic expansion, companies put a great deal of their earnings back into the company to avoid taxation on those earnings. As a result, wing services start popping up that aren’t necessary, but are a “perk” of said company’s service. When the economy begins to falter, however, companies discontinue these services that do not prove profitable. The USPS is suffering from the inability to cut back, IMO. Well it is a government agency. Are you also implying government agencies be privatized if they cannot behave like a private company in a free market? Hmmmm, perhaps one needs to get their nose out of the theory books and live in the real world for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/22 "2002-07-29T01:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > I boycott the USPS. Fortunately they have serious for profit competition. I send everything by United Parcel Service or FedEx. You wouldn’t believe the amount of money I save. Gee, when I returned to the USA I shipped _everything_ (other than the clothes I needed for the first few weeks) via the post office. No, no furniture, but everything else. It was _considerably_ cheaper than UPS, FedEx, DHL or even shipping via airline cargo (even though it was all shipped via air!) Plus, I sent it insured via certified mail. Didn’t lose a thing. Took off all the expenses on my taxes the following year. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/23 "2002-07-29T01:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by webguy1000 \* > You see, it works like this. > > First, I post a question for debate. Then, I state an opinion. Lastly, I wait for someone to prove me wrong. > > Debate, Repeat. Actually, I thought it was 1. Post a question to debate. 2. Post an opinion “answering” the question. 3. _Provide evidence to support the opinion._ 4. Wait for others to argue their viewpoints with their evidence, possibly discredit my opinion/evidence, yadda, yadda. Repeat. Otherwise, I’ll just say the Moon is made of green cheese. Now prove me wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/24 "2002-07-29T01:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > \*\*I boycott the USPS. Fortunately they have serious for profit competition. I send everything by United Parcel Service or FedEx. You wouldn’t believe the amount of money I save. \*\* Will UPS and FedEx deliver a letter anywhere in the U.S. for 37 cents? Still seems like an incredible bargain to me. My only gripe is why they always have to increase it in such odd amounts. Why couldn’t they go from 10 cents to 15 to 25 to 35, etc. What do they have against prices that end in a zero or 5? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/25 "2002-07-29T02:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > \*\*I boycott the USPS. Fortunately they have serious for profit competition. I send everything by United Parcel Service or FedEx. You wouldn’t believe the amount of money I save. \*\* Try me, **taggert**. I’m pretty open-minded. Exactly how much _do_ you save? Specifics, please. The USPS works just fine as it is. Parcel Post, if you’re in no hurry, can’t be beat. Same for first class. That’s all we need, some freakin board of directors finding ways to increase payoff to the stockholders. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/26 "2002-07-29T02:54:31Z")
I’m thinking that **taggert** may have whooshed you all. I think he was being sarcastic. Either that or he’s an idjit. ---
**Author:** ![Jenner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@Jenner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/27 "2002-07-29T03:02:11Z")
Everybody’s inefficient, if you goal is absolute perfection. Personally I’m 100% satisfied with the post office. I think they do an excellent job, and 37 cents is still a damn good price. ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/28 "2002-07-29T03:10:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by webguy1000 \* > \*\*I’m an average citizen who’s wondering why my stamp prices _continue_ to rise. > > I’m only 25 years old and _already_ I can remember “when stamp prices were only 24 cents.” I understand that lettered mail went down drastically with the advent of the internet, but isn’t it also possible that the USPS grew like any other company during the dotcom bubble and it’s just refusing to downsize? > > If commercial businesses can make considerable profits at this game, what is the USPS’s problem? \*\* No, I’m not being sarcastic. Read the OP. This person has remarked on how the price has gone up by a whole 13 cents in twenty years. When I was young, it was a nickle! And are we getting better service? No. Is it competitive? No. This just shouldn’t happen! It’s because of Clinton and the lack of moral clarity in our society, not because the people who have this opinion are “sarcastic” or “idjits”. This is how conservatives think: clearly. If something we don’t like just gets worse, we say so, without regard to the fine nuance and detail and explaining away of all the complexities, which is really just talking around the issue. The USPS should be privatized so that we can all save money competitively. My FedEx stuff gets there overnight! Personally delivered. The UPS stuff too. (Not necessarily overnight.) And it never increases in costs and in fact they never charge anything. I just bring the stuff to work, fill out the packing slip, and off it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/29 "2002-07-29T05:11:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > It’s because of Clinton and the lack of moral clarity in our society, not because the people who have this opinion are “sarcastic” or “idjits”. This is how conservatives think: clearly. If something we don’t like just gets worse, we say so, without regard to the fine nuance and detail and explaining away of all the complexities, which is really just talking around the issue. What excuse did you use before Clinton was elected the first time? You mean, there wasn’t a lack of moral clarity Before Clinton (BC)? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/30 "2002-07-29T05:35:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > …in fact they never charge anything. I just bring the stuff to work, fill out the packing slip, and off it goes. Please tell me that you aren’t actually under the impression that FedEx and UPS are charitable enterprises? ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/31 "2002-07-29T06:19:46Z")
You mean they cost money? :eek: I’ve never paid for them. The USPS, if it was privatized and had to compete and wasn’t allowed to run deficits would be just the same. Its about moral clarity and good conservative American family values. People should not be allowed to unionize (and I understand the UPS and FedEx are unionized too), so that they will not strike, work for less wages and be thankful that they have a job and not be so uppity. There is nothing so gratifying to the heart as a middle manager who knows that his or her underlings are terrified of getting on his or her bad side and worried about getting fired. You never hear about a FedEx worker going “postal” do you? You just can’t get good help nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/32 "2002-07-29T07:25:41Z")
I remember the good old days of Reagan/Bush, we never increased the postage than!!! ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/33 "2002-07-29T10:09:16Z")
Exactly how can the USPS provide “better” service? Faster delivery, sure, I can see that. But it sounds like some people are demanding nothing less than a postal worker coming into their home, weeding out what needs to be mailed, stuffing the envelope, addressing the envelope, and leaving behind a chocolate chip cookie on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/34 "2002-07-29T11:52:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > \*\*The USPS, if it was privatized and had to compete and wasn’t allowed to run deficits would be just the same. . \*\* I don’t think it would. The UPSP doesn’t seem to be designed to make a profit, just to fill a need. There are no private businesses that will take my letter from me in LA and deliver it to it’s destination in Florida for a measly, _a measly_ 37 cents. Heck, UPS wouldn’t even look at me for that price. And it’s not like they don’t have the networks in place. UPS, FedX, and a host of others have been in business for many moons. But I don’t think businessmen will see much point in delivering something that far for that little. The UPSP, for the service it provides, is cheaper than cheap. Really, it would be a bargain, even at a much greater price. Taggert, I think you’re pulling our legs.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/35 "2002-07-29T17:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > \*\*You mean they cost money? :eek: I’ve never paid for them. The USPS, if it was privatized and had to compete and wasn’t allowed to run deficits would be just the same. Its about moral clarity and good conservative American family values. People should not be allowed to unionize (and I understand the UPS and FedEx are unionized too), so that they will not strike, work for less wages and be thankful that they have a job and not be so uppity. There is nothing so gratifying to the heart as a middle manager who knows that his or her underlings are terrified of getting on his or her bad side and worried about getting fired. You never hear about a FedEx worker going “postal” do you? You just can’t get good help nowadays. \*\* Well, sure, FedEx and UPS are free, but USPS actually PAYS YOU money to mail a letter. We’re talking about liberal values like free love, psychodelic drugs, and lots of flowers. If the workers at USPS all lived in a commune, and just came to work whenever they felt the need, instead of punching a time clock like one of those stiff conservative types in a suit, then everything would be groovy. In fact, the workers should all own the company together - everybody gets a share. And why are you so uptight about your mail just HAVING to get there on time? If we all just mellow out, it’s not gonna blow anyone’s mind if it takes a couple extra days to get that letter. I blame Reagan and the fall of communism. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/36 "2002-07-29T18:40:17Z")
Does a joke turn a loss into a win? ::: Never mind, I was just kidding. :::: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/37 "2002-07-29T23:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\* > > Well, sure, FedEx and UPS are free, but USPS actually PAYS YOU money to mail a letter. We’re talking about liberal values like free love, psychodelic drugs, and lots of flowers. If the workers at USPS all lived in a commune, and just came to work whenever they felt the need, instead of punching a time clock like one of those stiff conservative types in a suit, then everything would be groovy. In fact, the workers should all own the company together - everybody gets a share. And why are you so uptight about your mail just HAVING to get there on time? If we all just mellow out, it’s not gonna blow anyone’s mind if it takes a couple extra days to get that letter. I blame Reagan and the fall of communism. \*\* 😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/38 "2002-07-29T23:37:40Z")
As self-proclaimed master of the bleeding obvious, I state that to compare the USPS to FedEx, UPS et al is unfair. FedEx and their competitors are not required to deliver to areas where they cannot make a reasonable profit. For delivering the sort of thing that arrives in your mailbox, the USPS cannot be beaten. 37 cents for a one ounce letter from Bangor, ME to San Diego, CA or Fishkill, MT to Hell’s Ditch, FL is an incredible bargain. The fairest comparison would be to other 1st world countries’ postal services. Last time I checked, the USPS was near the very top in performance and by far the least expensive. I cannot imagine any private company given the right to deliver the mail under the same constraints as the USPS would even consider it. The only way for a private company to make a profit delivering the mail would be to cut back on service to unprofitable areas and to raise prices. Unpalatable sez me. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/39 "2002-07-30T00:52:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\* > Please tell me that you aren’t actually under the impression that FedEx and UPS are charitable enterprises? \*\* Either that or he is stealing from his company. At least that is how it sounds from taggarts statement that he ships it out from work, sounds like his work is paying for his shipping, which is, if the company is not aware of it and has not specifically given him the go ahead, stealing. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241/40 "2002-07-30T04:25:14Z")
* * * > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by taggert \* > \*\*You mean they cost money? I’ve never paid for them. The USPS, if it was privatized and had to compete and wasn’t allowed to run deficits would be just the same. Its about moral clarity and good conservative American family values. People should not be allowed to unionize (and I understand the UPS and FedEx are unionized too), so that they will not strike, work for less wages and be thankful that they have a job and not be so uppity. There is nothing so gratifying to the heart as a middle manager who knows that his or her underlings are terrified of getting on his or her bad side and worried about getting fired. You never hear about a FedEx worker going “postal” do you? You just can’t get good help nowadays. \*\* Got to be a joke, and a bad one at that. **Taggert’s** signature says “I work for Mel Brooks.” Well, if that work consists of writing Mel’s material, no wonder we haven’t heard from him lately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usps-so-inefficient/121241.md?page=1)