# Why is the word for coffee the same in every language? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2001, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243 "2001-03-08T18:01:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/41 "2001-03-11T03:44:36Z")
A semi-related question: Are there any major world languages that have NOT adopted the American “Okay”? It always makes me smirk to hear Italians or Chinese slip it into their conversations. And Akatsukami, no offense intended here, but your sig line is starting to make me worry a little about you, okay? ---
**Author:** ![EB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@EB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/42 "2001-03-11T05:46:50Z")
I saw an interesting linguistic exhibit in a museum in Macau that demonstrated that, in a great many of the world’s languanges, the word for “tea” is related either to the Mandarin Chinese word “cha” (e.g. chai, etc.) or the Fujian Chinese word “te” (e.g. tea, etc.) I don’t remember all of the examples. (It seems not inconceivable that cha and te could be reated through an intermediate consonant sound like “ts”. But Im no linguist.) “Bye-bye” and “sorry” seem to have made their way into standard Cantonese. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/43 "2001-03-11T06:43:23Z")
You can trace the migration of the Mandarin word _cha_2 (formerly spelled _ch‘a_) across the Silk Road, through Central Asia into Russia, India, and Turkey. Because the Silk Road’s terminus was in Mandarin-speaking country, northern China. In Central Asia the word was Persianized by the addition of a final _-y_ glide. This is a characteristic of the Persian language: any open monosyllable word ending in a long vowel can have a _-y_ added. So _cha_2 became _chây_ in Persian. It’s also _chai_ in Russian, _câî_ in Hindi, _çay_ in Turkish. In southeast China, south of the Yellow River, the Fujian or Amoy-Hokkien pronunciation of the character for tea was pronounced [te]. It was mostly Chinese speakers from this language area who migrated to Southeast Asia, or Nanyang as the Chinese call it. Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. Thus the word for tea is _teh_ in Malay. The Portuguese and Dutch were the first Europeans to bring the article as well as the word for it to western Europe. The fact that English, French, Italian, German, etc. call it _tea_ or _thé_ or something like that is owed to the Dutch East India Company. I don’t know whether in some Chinese dialect there exists a form with the intermediate [ts]. I do know that in general the southern versions of Chinese are much more conservative as to consonants, while Mandarin is more innovative. IANAS (I am not a Siniticist), but I guess the proto-Chinese word began with t-. In Polish they call it by a compound word: _herba-te_ (which doesn’t mean ‘herbal tea’ but just tea, _Camellia sinensis_). ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/44 "2001-03-11T15:31:47Z")
\ **ElvisL1ves** writes: > [@](#): > > And Akatsukami, no offense intended here, but your sig line is starting to make me worry a little about you, okay? (He was, of course, referring to that sig block that read: > [@](#): > > “I must say that I was disappointed by Gore’s concession. I was hoping for a more traditional concession. You know, the kind where Gore would be sitting alone in a room and someone comes in and places a revolver loaded with one round on the table beside him.” – Robert Bruce Thompson ) Good of you to worry about me. Whilst I agree that references to Al Gore (who?) are now as dated as references to Charles Lindberg, I just hadn’t found another suitably amusing quotation…until recently. \ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/45 "2001-03-11T16:02:44Z")
1. When two different words come from the same source etymon, but became differentiated along the way, they’re called “doublets.” For example, _loyal_ and _legal_. One was filtered thru medieval French, the other was borrowed directly from the original Latin form. The existence of two forms of the Chinese word for tea has made possible a new doublet in English: _tea_ vs. _"chai._" The trendy “new” drink of recent years, “chai” has now become a naturalized English word. And you’ve got all these Americans imagining that “chai” means a specially prepared tea with sugar and spice and milk. When in fact it just means ‘tea’, plain & simple, any old kind of tea, in Hindi. In India it so happens that tea is almost always prepared with milk and sugar. (There’s something atavistic about returning to the blissful comfort of the infant nursing from mother’s breast. Indian _chai_ gives that experience through its sweet, warm, milky quality–however, for grownups it has the caffeine kick added. No wonder the stuff is so addictive!) Black tea in India is only given to sick people and thought of as more medicinal than pleasurable. Most everyday _chai_ in India doesn’t have the spice _masala_ added; they just do that once in a while; many Indians never spice their tea. The linguistic phenomenon is “marked” versus “unmarked” forms: in English _tea_ is the “unmarked” word for _Camellia sinensis_–it has the most general meaning, applied to any kind of tea. The new development in English is to have _chai_ as the “marked” form: limited to a certain specially prepared kind of tea. In Hindi, _chai_ is unmarked. If you go to India and want to order what Americans think of as “chai,” you have to qualify it with a modifier and say “_Masala chai_, please.” 1. The other thing about our word _tea_ which was transmitted to western Europe through Malay _teh_ is that in the 17th century, English speakers used the original Malay pronunciation: _tea_ rhymed with “day”. Shakespeare made a pun with “reason” and “raisin” becase in his day they were pronounced the same. In the late 18th century, the Great Vowel Shift was still winding up, and one of the last changes was to shift the sound of “ea” in such words from /e:/ to /i:/. But in Ireland that shift didn’t happen, so the more conservative sound became characteristic of Ireland English. There was a 19th century Irish-American work song with the lines: _O, ye work all day for sugar in your tay_… ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/46 "2001-03-11T16:36:31Z")
… however, the Irish word for “tea” is _tae_ - and it rhymes with the English “day”. “Tea” in everyday Hiberno-English doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/47 "2001-03-11T16:42:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\* English speakers used the original Malay pronunciation: tea rhymed with “day”. Shakespeare made a pun with “reason” and “raisin” becase in his day they were pronounced the same. In the late 18th century, the Great Vowel Shift was still winding up, and one of the last changes was to shift the sound of “ea” in such words from /e:/ to /i:/. But in Ireland that shift didn’t happen, so the more conservative sound became characteristic of Ireland English._\* Alexander Pope has the line (in _Rape of the Lock_) “doth sometimes cousel take, and sometimes tay”. It sounds strangely Irish. **ruadh** , some Irish people do say “tay” in English, and indeed some say “cha” (older members of my mother’s side and my father’s side of the family, respectively). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/48 "2001-03-11T17:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **ruadh** , some Irish people do say “tay” in English, and indeed some say “cha” (older members of my mother’s side and my father’s side of the family, respectively). \*\* You’re more the expert here than me 🙂 but it strikes me as a peculiarly Dublin, and more peculiarly working-class Dublin, pronunciation. I can’t recall ever hearing it in any other Irish accent. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/49 "2001-03-11T19:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that all these M words for “mother” appear, and that “Ma” means the same thing in languages as geographically and linguistically removed as English and Vietnamese, and that it is obviously not some recently coined, or technical, word such as “karaoke” has me stumped. > > Is it more to do with certain sounds being more natural for very small children to utter? I would suspect this is the case, although most little kids tend to say “mum (or mom)” a little later than they attempt the apparently easier “Dadda dad dad da” type words (much to the chagrin of mothers everywhere). My _American Heritage Dictinary_ notes that **ma-** (root of the Latin _mamma_, “breast”, and hence root of “mammal”, etc.; and, in the extended form **mater** – **ma-** with the suffic **-ter** denoting kinship–root of the Latin and Greek _mater_ and _meter_ and all their derivatives and the English “mother”) is “an imitative root derived from the child’s cry for the breast (a linguistic universal found in many of the world’s languages, often in reduplicated form).” The name of the Mande branch of the Niger-Congo language family in West Africa comes from the same source. Another baby talk root is **baba-** , “imitative of unarticulated or indistinct speech; also a child’s nursery word for a baby and for various relatives.” It is thus the root of the English words “baby” and “babble”; the Italian _bambino_; the Greek _barbaros_ or “barbarian” (“foreigner who speaks incomprehensible gibberish”); and the Slavic _baba_ (as in _babushka_), i.e., old woman or grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![weapons\_grade\_bullonium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@weapons\_grade\_bullonium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/weapons_grade_bullonium)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/50 "2001-03-11T20:12:57Z")
I would have thought it was the reverse, that we have more words for coffee than Inuits do for snow, java, joe, mud… ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/51 "2001-03-11T21:30:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\ ***Ko Phe** sounds more Indonesian to me. Cà Phê is how I write it in Vietnamese, and that’s how I see my friends write it although I don’t deny that “ko phe” might be some bizarro jungle dialect. > > Telephone = Ðiên thoai > > Mango = Xoai > > No = Không \*\* Damn, I was all ready to pounce on this one, but you beat me to it! I’ll throw in the few tidbits left to me. Mango = xoài (not xoai) Taxi = tác xi (should have a saucer-shaped thing between the a and the acute accent) Ðiên thoai should also have some more diacriticals, but until we get real Unicode support, we can’t type them in. (How is it that an “attractive” polyglot Vietnamese has escaped my attention on this board for so long? I thought Opus was the only other Vietnamese speaker.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2001, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/52 "2001-03-12T00:05:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > The name of the Mande branch of the Niger-Congo language family in West Africa comes from the same source. Eh, really? I thought this was place name derived. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2001, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/53 "2001-03-12T06:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Greg Charles \* > (How is it that an “attractive” polyglot Vietnamese has escaped my attention on this board for so long? I thought Opus was the only other Vietnamese speaker.) \*\* I’ve tried to learn that language for the last ten years. I’ve managed to pick up more Cantonese words (without making an attempt to learn) than Vietnamese. Man, it’s one tough language. I can swear in it though! 😃 A quick question (possibly a stupid question, but I’m neither a linguist or a musician): Does the fact that Vietnamese is a tonal language make it more difficult to write song lyrics than in a non-tonal Western language? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2001, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/54 "2001-03-12T07:06:10Z")
erm…that should be “neither…\*\*nor \*\*”. I rest my case about the linguist bit. D’uh. :o ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/55 "2001-03-13T01:27:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > \*\* > A quick question (possibly a stupid question, but I’m neither a linguist or a musician): Does the fact that Vietnamese is a tonal language make it more difficult to write song lyrics than in a non-tonal Western language? \*\* There are no stupid questions, just ones that are easier to ridicule! 🙂 It’s a hard question to answer though, because you really need to find someone who speaks both languages fluently and composes song lyrics in both. From what I’ve seen, the music must follow the tones to some extent, but not entirely. On the other hand Vietnamese words are all one syllable so it’s easier to fit them into a tune. I just don’t have the experience to give you a better answer … and in any case we’ve strayed pretty far from the OP! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2001, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/56 "2001-03-13T03:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Collounsbury_ > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by MEBuckner_The name of the Mande branch of the Niger-Congo language family in West Africa comes from the same source. > > Eh, really? I thought this was place name derived. **Mande** – Mandingo: _ma-_, “mother” + _-nde_, dimunitive suffix. See also **Mandingo** **Mandingo** – Mandingo: _ma-_, “mother” + _-ndi_, _-nde_, dimunitive suffix + _-ngo_, variant of _-ko_, suffix of nationality or tribe. Or so saith the _American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2001, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243/57 "2001-03-13T06:49:16Z")
Huh, interesting. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-word-for-coffee-the-same-in-every-language/57243.md?page=2)