# Why is their a strong belief that single women can't raise boys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149 "2016-05-19T08:03:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/41 "2016-05-20T16:03:58Z")
It is simple, it is sexism. How do you maintain the patriarchy when young men don’t have a male role mode to show them that they need to bottle up their feelings and feel superior to all women. How will men learn to bottle up their feelings and die early if they don’t have direct role models that they men aren’t supposes to admit that puppies are cute…what happens to anti-feminist beliefs if men are exposed to smart, strong and powerful role models that happen to be female? The horror!!! ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/42 "2016-05-20T19:18:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Which, along with your other evidence, seems to suggest that the reasons “single parents do less well in general” than two-parent families may also be largely economic. > > As for the OP’s question about why these circumstances are popularly perceived as a shortcoming or failure specifically on the part of single **mothers** , I think it’s probably because mothers are generally considered the primary bearers of responsibility for how a child turns out. Societal patterns of “blaming the mommy” for every kind of developmental outcome from homosexuality to delinquency to autism are well attested. Saying someone can’t do something is not blaming them for not doing it. I can’t destroy ISIS with psychic powers, and saying so is not blaming me for ISIS. Saying that single mothers can’t raise boys is not blaming mothers for juvenile delinquency it is saying that the mothers had no control. It is the opposite of what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/43 "2016-05-20T19:25:26Z")
It is estimated that one third of the gap between kids of single parents and kids of married parents is [economic](http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2014/09/04-marriage-social-mobility-parenting-income-reeves). However, since single parents are more likely to live in poverty adjusting for economic status underestimates the amount of damage single parenthood does on the children. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/44 "2016-05-20T21:29:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I take your point, but how do lesbian households with children compare with heterosexual households with children in terms of income? For married couples (which AFAIK is the only category that article was talking about), same-sex couples with children seem to have somewhat [lower income](https://www.census.gov/hhes/samesex/files/Krivickas-Lofquist%20PAA%202011.pdf). (But the previous link was dealing with Canadian and “elsewhere” (?) data and this link from the US Census is US-specific, so how to control for these confounding factors I know not.) [QUOTE=Shodan] Is there data on outcomes for gay male couples raising children? IOW does it matter if it is two women raising children, two men raising children, or one man and one woman? [/quote] The previously-linked article sez: > [@](#): > > The research is still very new, and there aren’t yet any definitive long-term, single-study comparisons of kids raised by lesbian and heterosexual couples. There is even less data on children of gay dads: In Canada, almost a quarter of married lesbians live with children, while only 9 per cent of married gay men do. But the signs seem to indicate their kids, too, are at least as successful as those with heterosexual parents. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/45 "2016-05-20T23:53:59Z")
It isn’t _just_ economics - having two adults shares the unavoidable burdens of raising children, including things like staying up nights with sick kids or having one parent spend time with the kids while the other does necessary tasks. Rich people care hire someone to either mind the children or perform those necessary tasks. Poor people can’t. Can’t help but think that affects outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/46 "2016-05-21T05:22:04Z")
They only know how to wipe their ass \*one \*way, and they sit down to pee. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/47 "2016-05-21T10:54:30Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > I think the idea is that men and women have different approaches to solving problems, social interactions, etc. and the lack of a father figure around means a boy is learning strategies that aren’t going to necessarily line up optimally with the ways the male brain thinks and acts. My opinion is that boys in these situations (no male figure to pattern after) are left with too many hyper-masculine role models in entertainment and sports. Acting like the men in video games or action movies doesn’t work well in real life. Netflix has a fascinating documentary on this by “The Representation Project”. It’s called [The Mask You Live In](http://therepresentationproject.org/film/the-mask-you-live-in), and (imo) is one of the best documentaries on what’s happening to young men that I’ve ever seen (especially in low income families). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/48 "2016-05-22T04:59:03Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Children benefit from stable two parent families. This shouldn’t be controversial. I personally know several young people who seem to be turning out fine, including 3 young girls being raised by 2 stable, married fathers, and a pair of boys being raised by 2 married moms. But I betcha that isn’t what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![blueliner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58f4c7/32.png) [@blueliner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueliner)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/49 "2016-05-22T05:03:31Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I personally know several young people who seem to be turning out fine, including 3 young girls being raised by 2 stable, married fathers, and a pair of boys being raised by 2 married moms. > > But I betcha that isn’t what you meant. CT wasn’t talking about gay couples and you know it. Oh Boy did you teach him a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/50 "2016-05-22T20:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > My opinion is that boys in these situations (no male figure to pattern after) are left with too many hyper-masculine role models in entertainment and sports. Acting like the men in video games or action movies doesn’t work well in real life. > > Netflix has a fascinating documentary on this by “The Representation Project”. It’s called The Mask You Live In, and (imo) is one of the best documentaries on what’s happening to young men that I’ve ever seen (especially in low income families). Very interesting. Thank you. However, I wonder about the validity of the “role model” concept. When I was a kid, I don’t remember patterning my behavior after anyone. I can’t think of a single person I would call a “role model.” There have been a few studies showing that peer pressure from kids of the same age has a far more influential role on children’s behavior than the parent (s) do. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/51 "2016-05-22T23:33:12Z")
> [@blueliner](#): > > CT wasn’t talking about gay couples and you know it. Oh Boy did you teach him a lesson. He was talking about raising children with no parent of the same gender to be a ‘role model’. Which frequently happens in gay married couples, yet the children seem to turn out fine (according to various studies). So that seems quite relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/52 "2016-05-23T04:43:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Saying someone can’t do something is not blaming them for not doing it. I can’t destroy ISIS with psychic powers, and saying so is not blaming me for ISIS. But if somebody wonders why ISIS isn’t destroyed yet, and I say _“well, **puddleglum** was put in charge of that job but his psychic-destruction powers just weren’t up to the challenge”_, than I **am** essentially blaming you for the failure to destroy ISIS. **I’m blaming the failure on your inability to cope with the task, even if I’m also acknowledging that your inability isn’t your fault.** Likewise, when somebody wonders why some boy who happens to be the son of a single mother didn’t turn out well, and you say _“well, single women can’t raise boys”_, that’s classic mommy-blaming. After all, there are zillions of other important factors that also go into a boy’s development: if you arbitrarily decide that the crucial factor was some failure on the part of the mother, then you’re blaming the boy’s outcome on the mother’s failure, even if you’re also asserting that the failure was something that she could never have helped. How a son turns out is not by any means **solely** dependent on how good his mother is at son-raising. Not even when the mother is a single mother. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/53 "2016-05-23T10:11:01Z")
I was raised by two loving parents as have my three daughters and with the exception of a few hick ups we have all turned out OK. I have been involved one way or another with the estate on which I live and we have more than our share of single mums, the majority are good strong lasses doing the best they can in their situation working hard to raise a family providing a fine example to their daughters that if you want something you have to work for it. Sons without the influence of a good man because their fathers have deserted them may have respect for their mothers and sisters but woman outside the family they just tend to use. The male example on the estate is hard with young children not seeing the gentle nature of men, this means that some boys grow up believing that they always have to be the tough guy. Another facet of our estate is we have several single parent families that have been rescued from violent marriages/relationships moving in from other parts of the country, this leads to the problem of learnt behaviour with daughters excepting their place as victim and sons as tyrants. One of the ways our group is trying is trying to deal with the problems of there being no good examples is by sponsoring a youth advocacy program and try to undo some of the harm done to these young people who through no real fault of their own or their single parent have developed a slightly warped view of how life should be. We cannot complain we may not be wealthy we have a good life but we come into contact with people who have been given the really shitty end of the stick. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/54 "2016-05-23T10:35:47Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Very interesting. Thank you. > > However, I wonder about the validity of the “role model” concept. When I was a kid, I don’t remember patterning my behavior after anyone. I can’t think of a single person I would call a “role model.” There have been a few studies showing that peer pressure from kids of the same age has a far more influential role on children’s behavior than the parent (s) do. Neither did I, and yet, having many people available with different ways of doing things was essential in my development. A “role model” isn’t someone who you pick to pattern yourself after, someone you try to be, but someone who shows you different “models” which fulfill that “role”; for example, different ways to be a man, or to be a worker, or to be a human being. If every woman you know always wears the same color from head to toe, then daring to wear one item that’s a slightly different shade is much more risque than if you know people who wear all kinds of clothing. **T.M.** , I think this will sound familiar: “women, they’re all whores except my own” (mother, sisters, wife and daughters, that is). That bit sure rang a bell. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/55 "2016-05-23T13:53:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Neither did I, and yet, having many people available with different ways of doing things was essential in my development. A “role model” isn’t someone who you pick to pattern yourself after, someone you try to be, but someone who shows you different “models” which fulfill that “role”; for example, different ways to be a man, or to be a worker, or to be a human being. If every woman you know always wears the same color from head to toe, then daring to wear one item that’s a slightly different shade is much more risque than if you know people who wear all kinds of clothing. > **T.M.** , **I think this will sound familiar: “women, they’re all whores except my own” (mother, sisters, wife and daughters, that is). That bit sure rang a bell**. Sadly an attitude that is far to common. A debate with young people about marriage showed that the lasses were in favour of marriage in which to raise children. The lads could see no reason for getting married as they were getting sex anyway without having to make a commitment, as far as unwanted pregnancy is concerned the lads attitude is she can get an abortion, I think that the number of single parent mothers speaks for its self. They say no to killing their unplanned baby and fight like hell to raise their child as best that they can ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/56 "2016-05-23T16:59:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But if somebody wonders why ISIS isn’t destroyed yet, and I say _“well, **puddleglum** was put in charge of that job but his psychic-destruction powers just weren’t up to the challenge”_, than I **am** essentially blaming you for the failure to destroy ISIS. **I’m blaming the failure on your inability to cope with the task, even if I’m also acknowledging that your inability isn’t your fault.** > > Likewise, when somebody wonders why some boy who happens to be the son of a single mother didn’t turn out well, and you say _“well, single women can’t raise boys”_, that’s classic mommy-blaming. > > After all, there are zillions of other important factors that also go into a boy’s development: if you arbitrarily decide that the crucial factor was some failure on the part of the mother, then you’re blaming the boy’s outcome on the mother’s failure, even if you’re also asserting that the failure was something that she could never have helped. > > How a son turns out is not by any means **solely** dependent on how good his mother is at son-raising. Not even when the mother is a single mother. Not up to the challenge is different than can’t do it. Not being a man is not a failure on the part of a woman ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/57 "2016-05-23T17:32:27Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Not up to the challenge is different than can’t do it. Not being a man is not a failure on the part of a woman And similarly, not having psychic-destruction superpowers is not a failure on the part of a non-superpowered individual. **But if I claim that what taking down ISIS requires is psychic-destruction superpowers, and that the takedown of ISIS is _your_ job, which you can’t do because you don’t have those superpowers, _then I’m ultimately blaming the failure to take down ISIS on your innate deficiency_**. Likewise, if you claim that a single mother is responsible for how her son turns out, and also that a single woman can’t raise a son successfully because she’s not a man, then if the son doesn’t turn out well, **you are ultimately blaming that failure on her innate deficiency**. (And of course, when a single mother’s son **does** turn out well, then your claim is revealed to have no factual basis in the first place.) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/58 "2016-05-23T17:47:07Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Very interesting. Thank you. > > However, I wonder about the validity of the “role model” concept. When I was a kid, I don’t remember patterning my behavior after anyone. I can’t think of a single person I would call a “role model.” There have been a few studies showing that peer pressure from kids of the same age has a far more influential role on children’s behavior than the parent (s) do. I don’t disagree with your view point here, but I would like to point out that not all role models are picked through some kind of conscious decision making. You may have been influenced by “role models” without realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/59 "2016-05-24T01:30:19Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t disagree with your view point here, but I would like to point out that not all role models are picked through some kind of conscious decision making. This is especially true for children. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149/60 "2016-05-24T01:47:02Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > It is simple, it is sexism. > > How do you maintain the patriarchy when young men don’t have a male role mode to show them that they need to bottle up their feelings and feel superior to all women. It is sexism, yes, but actually, that is what they are learning, way too often: that to be a Manly Man you must be a cartoon character out of a meat market music video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-their-a-strong-belief-that-single-women-cant-raise-boys/755149.md?page=4)