Most Irishmen would beg to differ, Popokis5. Read up on the famine of '45 and you may have a different opinion on the matter. It’s not a good idea to insist that one people’s holacaust is somehow less painful than another’s.
In addition to the points made above, it should be remembered that a huge number of Holocaust survivors emigrated to the U.S. after the war.
On the question of whether the U.S. or other nations could have done more to stop the Holocaust, that’s a difficult question. It used to be argued, for instance, that if the Pope had spoken out, Hitler would have stopped. I think that the last few years – Milsoevic and Kosovo, among others – have shown us that such murderous tyrants don’t really give a rats-ass what the Pope or President or other world leaders say. It would still have been a nice gesture if the Pope had spoken out against Hitler, but it most likely wouldn’t have had any impact.
The fact is that the lesson of “NEVER AGAIN” has not been learned. There have been many genocides since: Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, and Kosovo, among others. It saddens me greatly to realize that people can still be so depraved and cruel… a petty dictator can still rouse up murderous hatreds and massacres.
It was not until mid-1940 that Hitler actually decided on his “final solution” for the “Jewish problem.” One idea being considered as late as early 1940 (proposed by one Werner Rademacher) was to send all European Jews to the Island of Madagascar.
The 4 Einsatzgrupen (death squads) had been operating for many months before Hitler and his henchmen realized that particular method (mass execution by firing squads) was extremely inefficient, and they were troubled by reports the executions were taking a terrible psychic toll on the soldiers responsible for carrying them out.
The death camp plan was designed partially as a “humane” (for the executioners) way to kill people.
As far as Washington goes, there WERE two available plots of land left facing the Capitol Mall. Lots of thought went into what to put there. It was eventually decided (@ 20 years ago) that a “Holocaust” museum and a “Native American” museum would be most appropriate.
Construction on the latter begins soon, and hopefully it will be as much of a distinctive architectural triumph as the Holocaust Museum is (say what you will, it’s an amazing building). When the Native American Museum is completed, the Capitol Mall will be full.
Like most museums, both are/were set up with a blend of government and “private” funds, which includes corporate endowments and foundation grants etc.
jodih: 
(never again/never forget) … that reminded me of that old Steve Martin bit, where he talks about the most important thing he learned from his yogi, the wisdom of which he carries with him every day … "He said: 'Always - ’ oh, wait, it was: ‘Never …’ "
I haven’t been on the East Coast in a while, so I haven’t visited the Holocaust Museum. Does it confine its exhibits to those dealing with the 1933-45 tragedy or does it also explore other attempted genocides?
In LA we have an excellent museum called the Museum of Intolerance. It deals with all aspects of hatred, and although the abominations of the Nazis are well covered, they are not the primary focus.
To add to the difficulty of the question of this thread:
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The United States can hardly be said to have entered the Second World War on the grounds of moral outrage. If that were the case, the US would’ve declared war on Germany when the United Kingdom and other countries did. The fact remains that the US entered the war to punish Japan for the attack on Pearl Harbor.
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Even if the US did have a moral reason for its entry, that was negated by the mass imprisonment of United States citizens without trial solely based on their race.
It’s a great museum, Papabear, but it’s called the Museum of Tolerance, not the Museum of Intolerance. Eldest Son was eligible for extra credit points for visiting it on Spring Break during Seventh Grade. Very thought-provoking place.
-Melin
I’m a woman phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That’s me
(Maya Angelou)
What I would like to know is following:
Is this museum stricly about the jewish holocost of Nazi Germany or is it also about the comunists, gypsis, homosecuals and just about every other minorety in Germany…
Also lets not forget the 17000000 citizens of Russia killed in the war.
“If you could grow sadness, Russia would be the fruitbasket of the world”
Thor
The museum addresses EVERY minority that was persecuted by the fascists, everywhere.
That includes the USSR. Though I would think that they are due for a little holocaust education of their own.
it’s a very good thing that everybody is represented in the museum.
But tell me this, why do you think the Russians need to educate their citizens on the Holocost?
Thor
You ask why, Thor? The following is a very siimple answer, so I hope the rest of the board’s readers will bear with me here.
The Russians need to educate their citizens as to the facts of what happened during the Holocause but also what happened during the Soviet purges throughout the history of the Soviet Union.
The best example I can give is your postings on this board. You evidently get your “information” from certain state-controlled media in the former Soviet-controlled areas of Europe.
Yet, according to your profile here, you live in Iceland, a land with a long tradition of Democracy and Learning.
Your assertion that my statement above about moral outrage had something to do with the current conflict in Yugoslavia is weak at best. I made that statement to counter the prevalent, as I see it, mistaken opinion that the US entered the war because of the Holocaust.
The situation in Yugoslavia is the opposite. The rapes, killings, mass graves, forced deportations, forced separations of families, and so on, are already in the public eye.
NATO, to which YOUR COUNTRY also belongs and to whose plan in this case YOUR COUNTRY agreed to BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DID, has moral outrage on its side.
All the current government has on its side is two things: (1) an extremely prejudiced population as evidenced by the ease that this situation exists, and (2) a state-controlled media.
You live in a country which enjoys freedoms of speech, life, and liberty. Try to use those freedoms for something better than inane connections between events unrelated in time or place.
Any further comment I have on this particular issue will be in the BBQ Pit.
Sorry folks, in addition to misspelling “Holocaust” above, I left out the bolded words below in my last posting above.
Thanks for the responses to this difficult topic. Atrocities are hard to discuss without getting upset. In the interest of conversation, I will address some of the responses:
Archimedes, “One may argue that if there is a memorial to victims of the Holocaust, there should be memorials/museums for the victems of various other atrocities.”
Right, that was my main point.
BunnyGirl, “I’ve heard the US has a larger Jewish population than Isreal does.”
According to the CIA World Fact Book, http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/country.html the Israel pop is 5.6 million and is 82% Jewish. The US pop is 270 million and is 2% Jewish, which is 5.4 million. So the Jewish pop is similar in Israel and the US.
Nickrz “is this stuff really important anymore? to which I reply, Yes, your damn tootin’”.
This comes from Nickrz who complained about the Littleton shootings still being discussed only a month after they happened (see the thread in the BBQ pit). Do you want to remember the holocaust for generations but forget about Littleton a month later?
Jodih “Never Again.”
What about the Khmer Rouge, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Tibet? Are those atrocities going to happen again? Or don’t they qualify for a museum in the USA.
Jophiel “US involvement in WWII had nothing to do with the Holocaust.”
I think the US was a factor. The worst period was after the US entered, 1942-45. Most analysts say that conditions worsened after the US entered, sort of like what is happening in Kosovo now. Pacifists say that is one resason the US should not enter foreign wars.
RTA “The museum addresses EVERY minority that was persecuted by the fascists, everywhere.”
OK, there were a few minority groups persecuted, and it was entirely in central Europe. What about the other people persecuted at other times/places (Khmer Rouge victims, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Tibet)?
Rivkah Maccabi “forsaken place in the mid-West-- Oklahoma or something.” Is Oklahoma the midwest? I consider it a South Central state. It’s not the same as Wisconsin, Ohio, or the other fine, midwest states.
“Maybe the Smithsonian should disassmble the Egyptian exhibit, not to mention the rocks and gems-- most of those diamonds are imports.”
Yes, that does seem to be the faulty reasoning that I am questioning. Why have only memorials to the holocaust in the US? What about memorials for the suffering other people have endured (Khmer Rouge victims, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Tibet)? It is like having museums in the US that display only art/exhibits from one group of people.
“Who said there are no stupid questions?”
There aren’t, only stupid answers.
CHEESE HEAD – The logic flaw in your last post appears to be a presumption that if we cannot or will not commemorate EVERY SINGLE genocidal event in recent history, then it’s wrong to commemorate any. I strongly disagree with this. A memorial to victims of ANY genocide is, in a way, a memorial to the victims of ALL genocides, if it touches one human heart or educates one human mind about the inhumanity we, as a race, can visit upon one another. Just because no one has organized a memorial to Rwandan genocide (or pick the enormous mass-murder of your choice) doesn’t mean that the Holocaust memorial is somehow inappropriate. Just because we have failed to light all possible candles doesn’t mean we were wrong to light the candles we have.
While I have no problem with a holocaust museum on U.S. soil as such, it does seem odd that there is no museum commemorating our atrocities. Why no slavery museum, Native American museum, etc.? This isn’t to say we need to commemorate every single atrocity but I wonder if we Americans have an easier time with other peoples’ crimes than our own.
In this house we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics
__Homer Simpson
“The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation’s history. I mean in this century’s
history. But we all lived in this century. I didn’t live in this century.”
– former Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/15/88
I hope having the museum in the USA doesn’t confuse people like Quayle into thinking that it happened in the USA.
I have seen this speculated on the net at the Holocaust denial site I cited in the Pat Buchanan thread. Holocaust deniers do not deny that Jews were imprisoned in concentration camps, they deny that genocide was the goal. Their claim is that the Jews were only to be held there until they could be deported, not exterminated. They say that the Jews were well cared for, the very young, very old, and very sick were put in hospitals, not liquidated. And they say that people began to die of starvation or illness only after the Allies began bombing German supply lines cutting off food and medicine from the camps. Therefore, it’s America’s fault that anyone died in the camps.
Holocaust deniers are also deeply offended that there is a US museum commemmorating the holocaust and not “real” genocides. I sure hope this isn’t what the OP was driving at.
“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy
Frank said:
Well, I can’t speak on the Native American museum (however, someone else on this thread pointed out that one will be built in DC.), but as for not having a slavery museum, I have a few thoughts. First, the only museum I’ve ever seen deal with slavery was the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis. (Wonderful place, btw. I felt the same way there as I did going through the Holocaust museum.) As for why it’s not seen elsewhere, a few reasons. One, in my experience, some black people do not want that area of their history explored. Therefore, it’s not covered. Second, in the museums I’ve been to in the south, slavery is covered as a fact of life, and that they just LOVED working on the plantations. I know this is incorrect, but it’s the mentality of a lot of people there.
“There is such a fine line between stupid and clever.” – David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Also, remember that we like to think of the Holocaust as an aberation. I’d have a difficult time making the arguement that it was really all that unique, but I think that is how it is perceived. No other great power has mechanized and dehumanized the process of slaughter the way the Nazis did. Other genocides were certainly more emotional and haphazard than the Holocaust.
In the 19th century, slavery, racism, and the opression of aboriginal peoples was NOT an aberation. The US was hardly any more guilty of these atrocities than was the rest of the industrialized world.
Not an excuse. Just a reason.