# Why is there anything wrong with a large gap between the rich and poor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617 "2002-12-05T03:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/41 "2002-12-05T20:06:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Calliope \* > you truly believe that food, housing and health care are NOT rights? \*\* No. You have no inherent right to anything that comes at the expense of someone elses labor. mhendo my point is where do we draw the line with wealth distribution? People may think its obscene that the Bill Gate’s of the world are billionares. But Gate’s started with almost nothing and created a company that provides jobs for thousands of people. His companies made millionares out of hundreds of poeple. He spends millions each year on charities. So what other obligation does he have to some middle class guy who is pissed off because he C-plused his way through life and ended up in some ordinary office or factory job? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/42 "2002-12-05T20:13:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > \*\*t. > > As to the person in the 15000 square foot mansion, I would say _he_ has the right to sit there in his plush slippers, sup his $500-a-bottle wine from his fine crystal glasses while watching Episode II on his $20,000 home theater system, and feel however he damn well pleases about the homeless man across the street. It may mean he’s an ass, but that doesn’t invalidate the fact that it’s his God-given right, in a much more concrete sense than any person’s “right” to a work-free existence. > > Jeff \*\* I didn’t know that god had given to some people the right to own a 20 000 $ home theater system. I would have thought that the right to live was much more of a concern for its followers (as long as you’re still in the womb, you’ve an absolute right to live. Once out, you can starve to death, that’s not an issue)…But that’s just me… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/43 "2002-12-05T20:20:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*We managed hundreds of thousands of years without health care. It seems life manages all over the planet just fine without it. \*\* During most of this thousands of years, people lived in little communities which took care of their members who were ill, old, etc…to the best of their abilities and means. That’s one of the essential point of living in a community. Though we now live in very large communities and usually don’t know personnaly the people who are in need, I think that this kind of solidarity is still one of the reasons why we live in organized societies, and still a duty . Especially since our means are incredibly more important. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/44 "2002-12-05T20:25:32Z")
Gee, **Sterra** , I didn’t realize I said we should abandon health care. I thought I said it wasn’t a right. [k&n-'flAt](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=conflate) much? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/45 "2002-12-05T20:33:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*—I would say it is because in your case wealth is only determined by birth.— > > Height is partially determined by birth too. So is raw intelligence. So is beauty. So is what sort of family you’re born into. > > The problem is, just because you don’t deserve what you are born into, doesn’t mean that other people have legitimate claims upon it. \*\* The difference is that height, intelligence, beauty, are immediate characteristics which can’t be separated from you. While being born Jones or Smith is totally unrelated with what share of wealth you should have. I can give you money, I can take money away from you, but I can’t give you intelligence or take it away from you. In Shodan hypothetical society, there’s a fixed amount of wealth to share. His society share it according to a totally arbitrary rule : depending on who your parents were. It makes this distribution of wealth arbitrary and unjust. Taking your own analogy, I could point out that : 1)Money in Shodan’s society could be shared according to your height, for instance. The 10% taller would receive 5 millions and the 90% smaller only the 30 000 . Is that still fine for you? 2)With the same reasonning, you can support hereditary power : height, beauty, etc…is partially determined by birth too. So is what sort of family you’re born into. Just because you don’t deserve the political power you were born into doesn’t mean that other people have a claim upon it. Is that still fine for you? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/46 "2002-12-05T20:46:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\*It’s a good question, **Shodan**. I would argue that your hypothetical society is all right if and only if you hold prices constant. If $30k p/y is enough to live above some standard of poverty, then this kind of society certainly has its perks. \*\* “Some standard of povery,” but what standard? I have lived in some very poor countries. By their standards, many people who are considered ‘in poverty’ here would be quite well off. Here it is considered poor to have to take a bus to work, but in other places only the well-to-do could afford a bus. Here it is considered very poor if someone only has one pair of shoes, but whole villages exist in which no one ever wears shoes. Is indoor plumbing a wild luxury, or a basic necessity? If 90% of the people earned $30K, and 10% earned a lot more, I would be quite sure that the 90% would view themselves as poor, no matter what their standard of living. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/47 "2002-12-05T21:07:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > \*\*Calliope, yes I truly believe that no man has a basic, fundamental right to demand that he can sit on his fat, lazy tush all day and have people provide him with food, housing, and health care. If you want food and lodging, you work for it. > > If you believe that food, for example, is a basic right, then you must believe that someone who chooses to not work, and to not earn any money, has the right to demand that I, who works hard every day, provide him with a loaf of bread. For what reason? Because he’s entitled to it? Because he’s earned the fruits of my labor by the mere fact that he’s a human being? With all due respect, bull-fucking-shit. > > Jeff \*\* I hope, **ElJeff** that you apply this same standard (“no work= no food”) to **yourself** as well as to others. I’ll only respect your position if you truly mean that, should you become a brain-damaged quadraplegic who’s totally incapable of working, as a result of a car accident you didn’t cause, the rest of us are free to toss you aside and allow you to starve to death. Ditto if you become dememted with Alzheimer’s in your old age. The social justice **clairobscure** and the others are arguing for in this thread is in a sense fundamentally selfish; they know that people have unequal abilities, that some of those differences aren’t chosen, and (here’s the selfish point) **that they, too could become one of the of those “inferior” people at any time, simply through a stroke of bad luck**. People don’t choose their genes, their childhood environment, or their luck - and it’s not fair to deprive those who, through no fault of their own, fall short in these areas and cannot support themselves unaided. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/48 "2002-12-05T21:11:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*From a post by clairobscur \* > \*\* > …poor people are actually quite often kept poor artificially. Money gives you a big leverage, and a lot of influence. And people being people, this power and influence is going to be misused. For instance by lobbying in favor of laws which are advantageous for you. Or by engaging in a commercial war you’re going to win not because you’re the best but because being already rich, you can sustain losses for quite a long time. The playing field isn’t leveled. > > Money is a good incentive to make people work hard, use their potential talent and create wealth, but for this carrot to have efficient results, everybody must have an equal chance to get the carrot. A huge gap between the poor and the rich, a very inequal distribution of wealth means that some are going to enter the race within a 40 pounds backpack on the shoulders, and some others will be given a starting position 100 feet ahead everybody else. > \*\* Two good points here. Taking the 2nd point first, we do not have a level playing field. People born into poverty are at a major disadvantage compared to those born into the middle class, let alone those born into riches. Taking the 1st point second, those that have can keep those who don’t from getting anywhere. For example, a poor person trying to start a business is stymied by all sorts of licensing laws and other regulations that are designed to make it difficult for newcomers to enter the field (whatever field it is). ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/49 "2002-12-05T21:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Calliope \* > \*\*There is nothing fundamentally wrong with some people having more money,even a great deal more money, than others. But there is something inherently wrong with the concept of some people having a great deal of money while others cannot get their basic needs met. > > Having enough food and shelter and clothing to live is not a luxury, it is a basic need. A culture that does not see to it that everyone has at least basic needs met is a culture that cannot and will not be stable. > > We should ensure that _every single person_ has enough food, a reasonable degree of shelter–i.e. a decent abode and not a cardboard box, and proper clothing, _whether or not they work_, just because those things are the RIGHTS of all human beings, and should not be regarded as luxuries one must EARN. > > Any wealth created over an above this level would rightly belong to those who have worked for it. But to imply that one must earn a basic level of subsistence is not only arrogant, it is inhumane. \*\* When you come right down to it, I guess I agree. But I am not optimistic that such an arrangement can be achieved in the US any time soon. Welfare in the US today falls far short of what Calliope describes, but even this inadequate system (welfare in the US today) creates enormous resentment on the part of many working class, middle class, and wealthy Americans. So many people seem convinced that the govt is unfairly overtaxing them in order to give free money to “welfare bums”. Somehow, no other use of tax money engenders anything like as much resentment as welfare for the poor. If it were up to me, I’d spend more to help the poor. Personally, what I resent most are corporate welfare, perks for the rich, and the enormous military budget. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/50 "2002-12-05T21:38:10Z")
Guinastasia: > [@](#): > > PSSHHHOOOO!!! Crack, crack crack-that is the sound of me crushing the huge Strawman above. > > What about the man, who has a disability-who does work hard at a job, but cannot even reasonably afford enough food to feed him AND his family? > > Or, okay, if this guy is a lazy SOB-no, perhaps he doesn’t deserve better. BUT…what if he has a wife and children? Do said CHILDREN deserve to starve? I hate to bring up the whole, “think of the children!” argument, but that’s who will suffer the most in this dog eat dog world we’re talking about. It’s not a straw man at all. I was responding to specific statements by certain posters that such things as food and health care are basic human rights. They aren’t. The unfortunate nature of the above examples doesn’t not change this fact. clairobscur: > [@](#): > > I didn’t know that god had given to some people the right to own a 20 000 $ home theater system. It wasn’t the “right” to own a theater system that I was referring to, it was the right to not give a damn about anyone else. artemis: Yes, I’m consistent in my views. If I were to become incapacitated, I would not want anyone to be forced against their will to help me out. Personally, I have many friends and family who would probably help me out - I would like to think they would, were I in such a situation. If they didn’t want to, or couldn’t, though - sucks to be me, I guess. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/51 "2002-12-05T21:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > So many people seem convinced that the govt is unfairly overtaxing them in order to give free money to “welfare bums”. Somehow, no other use of tax money engenders anything like as much resentment as welfare for the poor. If, for example, your 35 year old son were still living with you, and you were providing him with free food and free housing, I would think you would be more likely to feel resentful of buying him dinner, than of paying the phone bill, or your auto insurance, or the mortgage, or a new suit. Do you disagree? And that’s when you have the option of kicking him out. What if he moved in and forced you, on threat of incarceration, to care for him? What if it wasn’t your son, it was a total stranger? Would you still not feel resentful? It’s not like these people are donating five bucks to the Salvation Army, then griping about the recipients. They’re having money forcibly taken from them and transferred to people who, in their minds, aren’t earning their keep. Whether you agree with social welfare or not, I would think you could see how it might possibly engender a little resentment. Roads, police, military - these are things that people see a concrete need for. The homeless guy across town getting a free burger - it’s a little more difficult to see the direct benefits to the taxpayer from something like that, even if you agree that such welfare is a good idea. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/52 "2002-12-05T21:57:31Z")
Guin, I hope you find a good job soon. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/53 "2002-12-05T22:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > They’re having money forcibly taken from them and transferred to people who, in their minds, aren’t earning their keep. No, it’s not “their” money in the first place. As I have tried to point out to you, you arrive at some very fundamental contradictions if you assume that ever dime that you take home from work (or whatever) is yours. One is that there is no money to pay for all the different aspects of society. Another that it has been “earned” within a society with a certain set of rules that are fundamentally rather arbitrary…Really no less arbitrary than the rules governing the transfers that you fret about. The money that is truly yours is the money that you have after taxes. And, while you are within your rights to argue that this amount should be greater or lesser and to work in our political society for this to be so, trying to argue that all of the pre-tax income is yours in some very fundamental sense is just fundamentally silly. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/54 "2002-12-05T22:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > People may think its obscene that the Bill Gate’s of the world are billionares. But Gate’s started with almost nothing and created a company that provides jobs for thousands of people. His companies made millionares out of hundreds of poeple. He spends millions each year on charities. So what other obligation does he have to some middle class guy who is pissed off because he C-plused his way through life and ended up in some ordinary office or factory job? Gates is probably a poor example to use since I believe his family was already quite well off (his father being a very successful lawyer). Also, Bill Gates Sr. feels so strongly about keeping the estate tax that he is co-authoring a whole book about it. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/55 "2002-12-05T22:50:23Z")
—The difference is that height, intelligence, beauty, are immediate characteristics which can’t be separated from you.— Nonsense: you can damage my brain, restrict my nutrition, mar my face, etc, so as to make me more equal. More relevantly, those who are born to devoted and caring parents do way better than those who are not. Should, therefore, we “redistribute” this as well? —While being born Jones or Smith is totally unrelated with what share of wealth you should have. I can give you money, I can take money away from you, but I can’t give you intelligence or take it away from you.— Again, you can. So? —In Shodan hypothetical society, there’s a fixed amount of wealth to share. His society share it according to a totally arbitrary rule : depending on who your parents were. It makes this distribution of wealth arbitrary and unjust.— It makes it arbitrary, but it is only unjust if you preassume that the “wealth” is the right of everyone alive. But on what grounds do you assume this? Again, just because someone doesn’t deserve what they have doesn’t mean that others deserve to have a share of it. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/56 "2002-12-05T23:38:24Z")
> [@](#): > > No, it’s not “their” money in the first place. As I have tried to point out to you, you arrive at some very fundamental contradictions if you assume that ever dime that you take home from work (or whatever) is yours. One is that there is no money to pay for all the different aspects of society. Another that it has been “earned” within a society with a certain set of rules that are fundamentally rather arbitrary…Really no less arbitrary than the rules governing the transfers that you fret about. > > The money that is truly yours is the money that you have after taxes. And, while you are within your rights to argue that this amount should be greater or lesser and to work in our political society for this to be so, trying to argue that all of the pre-tax income is yours in some very fundamental sense is just fundamentally silly. See, this is a line of thinking that I honestly cannot comprehend: That every penny you earn belongs to the government, and that you are only entitled to the money that the government is generous enough to grant you. By this reasoning, if the government decided to confiscate 100% of your pay, what grounds would you have to complain? It’s not your money, the only money that is “yours” is that which the government has decided to give you - in this case, nothing - so shut up and stop whining. How depressing it must be to feel so indebted to the government as to believe they have unlimited access to the fruits of your labor. To me, every last penny of my gross income is mine. Every red cent. The money I pay in taxes is essentially rent that I pay to the government for the right to participate in American society, and to reap the benefits that an organized society offers. If I don’t like this implicit agreement, I can move elsewhere, where the conditions are different, in the same way that if I don’t like my apartment, I can move to another complex where the terms are different. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/57 "2002-12-06T00:06:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > \*\* > clairobscur: > It wasn’t the “right” to own a theater system that I was referring to, it was the right to not give a damn about anyone else. > > Jeff \*\* OK. So, the right God gave you is to not give a damn about anyone else? That’s wasn’t my understanding of the scriptures…but then I’m only a heathen… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/58 "2002-12-06T00:10:07Z")
Mhendo… > [@](#): > > It’s NOT a whole other debate, “buckaroo.” Sure it is, sir. Monster’s post referred specifically to a set of qualifiers of his position - namely, “As long as criteria A is met, I see no problem with a vast discrepancy between the rich and the poor.” Criteria A, of course, involves people breaking no laws to attain that affluent status. YOUR response took his post, twisted it, and applied a _non sequitur_: “What if the law is unethical?” And that’s the topic that’s a whole 'nother debate. Taking money from one person and giving it to another, under the guise of our social structure, would be a matter of law. And the law must be internally consistent. Ergo, your mentioning of “What if the law is unethical?” is a red herring, as it is yet another hypothetical applied to Monster’s post. > [@](#): > > the point i was trying to make was that sometimes laws are made which some (not all) people might consider inequitable or unfair, and that in my opinion simple legality shouldn’t necessarily be the final arbiter in an ethical debate. Granted. However, legally, one cannot justify punishing someone who has broken no law. And taking money from someone and giving to someone else would be a punishment to the person who has been deprived of said wealth. Furthermore, you open up a whole 'nother can of worms when you talk about questioning the morality of the law. Who’s to say, exactly, WHAT the “final arbiter” of ethical issues should be? Look at this thread alone… me and Clair, for example, disagree about the premise of the economic situation. I’m betting that you’ll see a similar divide amongst the rest of the population of the country. In short, the law shouldn’t be the final arbiter in ethical issues… but it’s just about the only one we have. > [@](#): > > And an ethical debate, not a legal one, is exactly what Muad’Dib offered up in the OP, if you would bother to read it. Right. So I disagree with you, and that means I obviously haven’t read anything. Say, buckaroo, got another of those rolleyes smileys? You deserve a couple. If YOU were to go re-read Monster’s post, you’d notice that his mentioning of legality is only part of his point. Furthermore, law is just a subset of ethicality… IDEALLY, we’d want the laws of a country to represent the ethical opinions of that country. Obviously, there are going to be some that YOU disagree with… is your opinion absolute? Why is your opinion greater than, say, mine? You denounce the law as an arbiter of ethics, yet at the same time try to set yourself up as the same? Permit me a scoff, sir. > [@](#): > > I’ll keep my words out of someone else’s mouth if you’ll keep your foot out of yours. Make that two scoffs. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/59 "2002-12-06T00:13:05Z")
A clarification… > [@](#): > > And taking money from someone and giving to someone else would be a punishment to the person who has been deprived of said wealth. I anticipate that some will quote this line of mine and disingeniously twist it and apply the same reasoning to taxes. I will intercept those attempts at twisting my words now and point out that taxes give the taxed benefits of an ordered and structured society… they get certain advantages, returns, if you will. Simply taking someone’s money and giving it to someone else gives NO advantages and returns. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617/60 "2002-12-06T00:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\* > > Nonsense: you can damage my brain, restrict my nutrition, mar my face, etc, so as to make me more equal. More relevantly, those who are born to devoted and caring parents do way better than those who are not. Should, therefore, we “redistribute” this as well? So, you think that for instance the pants you’re wearing are an intrinsic element of yourself on par, with say, your legs? > [@](#): > > It makes it arbitrary, but it is only unjust if you preassume that the “wealth” is the right of everyone alive. But on what grounds do you assume this? Again, just because someone doesn’t deserve what they have doesn’t mean that others deserve to have a share of it. \*\* I note that you didn’t respond to my point about political power similarily not deserved but inherited. And yes, I assume this wealth is the right of anyone alive, because in Shodan’s hypothetical society, there’s no reason to attribute this fixed amount of wealth to anybody in particular. Nobody deserves it, indeed. So you might think that it’s perfectly just if one person take all the wealth and all the others get nothing, for instance. But what is usually considered fair when a group of people receive something none of them particulary deserves (say parents giving a bag of candies to their children) is to share what is received equally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-anything-wrong-with-a-large-gap-between-the-rich-and-poor/140617.md?page=4)