# Why is there MSG in Chinese food? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507 "2003-05-06T21:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/1 "2003-05-06T21:09:55Z")
Reading that other thread on Chinese food got me thinking (and it got me hungry). Why does Chinese food use MSG? Is it a traditional ingredient? At my favorite Chinese resteraunt they always ask me if I want my food with or without MSG? Why is there even the option? MtM ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/2 "2003-05-06T21:18:45Z")
It tastes better…e.g. its a flavor enhancer. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/3 "2003-05-06T21:31:44Z")
I always thought MSG was a preservative and flavorless? MtM ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/4 "2003-05-06T21:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McDeath\_the\_Mad \* > At my favorite Chinese resteraunt they always ask me if I want my food with or without MSG? Why is there even the option? There is a widespread belief that MSG is awful and/or many people believe they are allergic to it. All scientific studies have disproven both things but people’s beliefs are not going to chage because of any scientific evidence. it is interesting to note that this is pretty much an American thing and my friends in other countries are amused when I tell them how some Americans believe MSG is pretty much like rat poison. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/5 "2003-05-06T21:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McDeath\_the\_Mad \* > I always thought MSG was a preservative and flavorless? Nope! Monosodium Glutamate is a flavor enhancer. Due to the chemical sounding name most people think it is a very artificial substance which must be bad for you but, in fact, it is quite old and originally extracted from seaweed I believe. It is the main component of those boullion cubes you use for flavor. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/6 "2003-05-06T21:41:58Z")
Before you link to my old thread, let me again apologize for the title! Actually, if you search for it, you’ll find several threads on it. Very informative. [Here it is.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141443) ---
**Author:** ![quicken78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/919ad9/32.png) [@quicken78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quicken78)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/7 "2003-05-07T18:58:09Z")
I believe that the food with the highest ‘naturally occuring’ concentration of glutamates is parmesan cheese - which is why it is so ‘moreish’. ---
**Author:** ![Peg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Peg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/8 "2003-05-07T20:08:42Z")
I grew up in Asian and there, it was just another ingredient you picked up at the store and put in the cabinet with the salt soy, fish, and satay sauces. My mom stopped using it early on (early 80s), however, because she was concerne with over-salinifying our food and bloodstreams. ---
**Author:** ![Parrothead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/59ef9b/32.png) [@Parrothead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parrothead)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/9 "2003-05-07T20:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sailor_ > **There is a widespread belief that MSG is awful and/or many people believe they are allergic to it. All scientific studies have disproven both things but people’s beliefs are not going to chage because of any scientific evidence.** Well, I don’t believe that it is awful or anything… but scientific evidence be damned, I swell up like a balloon when I get a meal full of the stuff. It’s quite tasty, just makes me feel like hell. And it’s not just chinese food… it’s also used to flavor several types of breakfast sausages, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/10 "2003-05-07T21:11:33Z")
**Parrothead** do you eat Dorritos? They are one of many foods that contain MSG. I’ve found that MSG is in a lot of snack foods, not just Chinese food. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/11 "2003-05-08T00:20:06Z")
My experience has been the opposite of **Peg** ’s. MSG was never something we bought, kept in the cabinet, and added to food. If it was in our foold, it was because it came with the food, in the sauce or what have you. Cecil: [Is MSG bad for you?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_086.html) ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/12 "2003-05-08T03:37:20Z")
“Accent” flavor enhancer is MSG. I’ve never used it myself, but my Mon used to use it. And a Goggle search reveals many recipes that call it out. as an ingredient. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/13 "2003-05-08T05:38:17Z")
MSG is predominately used as a flavor enhancer. It was originally extracted from _kombu_ seaweed although free glutamic acid is present in brewer’s yeast, milk, tomatoes, cheese and other common foods. Glutamic acid is a neurotoxic neurotransmitter that has many receptors in the body and not just on the tongue. The brain has many receptor sites and so does the hypothalamus, which has no impermeable blood barrier. Some 25% of the US population exhibit reactions to free glutamate acids in foods. Glutamate is an amino acid and a common component of many edibles, especially proteins. Monosodium Glutamate is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, created by mixing sodium, water and glutamate. As a taste element, MSG contributes a sensation recently identified as a fifth flavor element (the others being salt, sour, bitter and sweet). Called _unami_, it is a silky perception normally associated with oleaginous or buttery foods. Mushrooms are a rich source of glutamates. It is for this reason that they frequent accompany steaks and other meats. They enhance the flavor and textural perception (i.e., mouth feel) of the meat, making it seem and taste like a more expensive cut. If you wish to perform a small experiment, prepare a common cut of beef, like sirloin. Taste an untreated piece of the cooked meat. Then dip another similar piece in some melted butter and consume it. The butter enhances mouth feel in ways similar to MSG. MSG will not make bad food taste good. It is able to further enhance good tastes and also mask off flavors which is why it is quite popular with the food processing industry. MSG also allows restaurants to create sauces that have a rich texture without the time or expense of using reduced meat stocks. Although a Japanese discovery, Chinese cuisine is one of the more well known food types that uses MSG. Widely distributed in proteins, it is in a bound form vital to metabolism and brain function. Metabolic functions require about 50 grams per day. Free glutamic acid is another matter entirely. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > There is a widespread belief that MSG is awful and/or many people believe they are allergic to it. All scientific studies have disproven both things but people’s beliefs are not going to chage [sic] because of any scientific evidence. it is interesting to note that this is pretty much an American thing and my friends in other countries are amused when I tell them how some Americans believe MSG is pretty much like rat poison. Although _not_ an allergen, many people _do_ show reactions to large doses of MSG, especially in the absence of food. An excerpt from [this](http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNSp00_MSG.htm) article mentions some of the toxic side effects MSG can have: “According to Dr. Samuels, the evidence of toxicity is overwhelming. Exposed laboratory animals suffer brain lesions and neuroendocrine disorders. Scientists studying retinal degeneration in mice treated with free glutamic acid have noted that these mice also became grotesquely obese following administration of free glutamic acid. The vulnerable hypothalamus in our brains regulates weight control, as well as other endocrine functions. When the brain is deluged with more free glutamic acid than it can handle, scientists know that problems and diseases can develop. For example, they know that a diverse number of disease conditions such as ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, a progressive degeneration of neurons and motor cells of the brain), Alzheimer’s disease, seizures, and stroke are associated with the glutamate cascade.” Personally, I do not use MSG at all and avoid it whenever possible. I believe that any competent chef can create wholesome and appealing foods without using such flavor enhancers. MSG currently shows up in some 40 different “natural flavorings” used in the processed food industry. It is one more reason to avoid fast food and preprocessed or snack food items. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/14 "2003-05-08T12:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > Although _not_ an allergen, many people _do_ show reactions to large doses of MSG, especially in the absence of food. An excerpt from [this](http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNSp00_MSG.htm) article mentions some of the toxic side effects MSG can have: There are many pages on the internet which claim MSG is bad for you but none of them make any convincing case. They are full of general assertions but I have seen no reliable scientific studies which show anything of the sort. > [@](#): > > Our large profit-driven food companies have found that manufactured free glutamic acid, in the form of monosodium glutamate (MSG), hydrolyzed vegetable proteins, etc., etc., when added to our processed foods, masks off flavors and makes the blandest and cheapest foods taste wonderful. A page which starts like a cheap anti-capitalist pamphlet needs to be taken with large doses of MSG to make it more palatable. > [@](#): > > “According to Dr. Samuels, the evidence of toxicity is overwhelming. Exposed laboratory animals suffer brain lesions and neuroendocrine disorders. Scientists studying retinal degeneration in mice treated with free glutamic acid have noted that these mice also became grotesquely obese following administration of free glutamic acid. The vulnerable hypothalamus in our brains regulates weight control, as well as other endocrine functions. When the brain is deluged with more free glutamic acid than it can handle, scientists know that problems and diseases can develop. For example, they know that a diverse number of disease conditions such as ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, a progressive degeneration of neurons and motor cells of the brain), Alzheimer’s disease, seizures, and stroke are associated with the glutamate cascade.” Great, we now know what Dr Samuels thinks. We know there are many who think like him or worse but it proves nothing. > [@](#): > > Personally, I do not use MSG at all and avoid it whenever possible. I believe that any competent chef can create wholesome and appealing foods without using such flavor enhancers. Well, you could say that about _any_ ingredient but the point is most people like the taste and would only want to avoid it if there is a good reason and the evidence so far is that there is no good reason to avoid it. > [@](#): > > [http://www.ajinomoto.com.sg/faqmain.html](http://www.ajinomoto.com.sg/faqmain.html) > MSG is one of the most extensively researched food ingredients. Following are just some of the safety affirmations by world leading authorities. > > Monosodium glutamate has been classified by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as a Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) ingredient since 1958. This is the safest classification a food ingredient can be given in the United States, along with pepper, sugar, vinegar and baking powder. > In 1987, the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA)1 was so convinced of MSG’s safety that the Committee established an Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) of “not specified” for international standards purposes. This is JECFA’s best classification for food additives. > The Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association issued a resolution in 1992 supporting MSG’s safety. > The Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB), a leading independent scientific organization, reaffirmed MSG’s safety in an FDA-commissioned comprehensive review in an August 1995 report. > The Scientific Committee for Food of the commission of the European Communities evaluated leading-edge research on MSG in 1991, establishing an “ADI not specified” rating. > \ > " Properly conducted, double-blind studies among individuals who claimed to suffer from the syndrome did not confirm MSG as the causal agent." ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/15 "2003-05-08T13:06:53Z")
Put me in the “no problem with MSG” camp. I used to use Accent when I was in my teens to make steaks taste better. I don’t use Accent any more, not because of MSG fears, but because I decided I liked the taste of the meat better without it. I still eat KFC chicken though, and KFC uses MSG. I’ve never experienced any problems with MSG. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/16 "2003-05-08T13:13:15Z")
As for myself, MSG definitely enhances the taste of food; food is more “full-flavored” with it. Unfortunately it can have the side effect of dehydrating me (the same if I eat too much salty food (and yes this means that salty snacks with MSG are a double whammy)). This can cause severe headaches unless I drink sufficient amounts of fluids. I prefer that restaurants state whether or not they add extra MSG. Only excessive amounts cause me any problems, then only if I don’t drink enough water while eating. Even if a restaurant doesn’t state it’s MSG quantities, I’ve improved my palate to where I can detect MSG fairly well. And increase why water intake. This only amounts to anecdotal evidence. My hypothesis is that different people have different sensitivity to MSG. If you’re sensitive, modify your behavior accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/17 "2003-05-08T13:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > Although _not_ an allergen, (1) Many people claim it does cause them allergic reactions but this has no scientific support so we see that there is no consensus on what exactly is bad about MSG. > [@](#): > > many people _do_ show reactions to large doses of MSG, (2) Define “reaction”. Define “large doses”. I can say many people do shows reactions to large doses of water (they drown). I can also say many people show reactions to large doses of raisin bran (they get fat). Such a statement is meaningless. Why would anyone need to consume “large quantities”? > [@](#): > > especially in the absence of food. Well, duh!. Consume “large quantities of salt or vinegar in the absence of food and tell me what happens”. I will say again this phenomenon is an American thing and I have never seen anyone from other countries say they had any reaction to MSG. Are Americans genetically different? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/18 "2003-05-08T13:45:16Z")
_Accent_ meat tenderizer is MSG. There was a great Chinese restaurant that I used to go to regularly and they used MSG, a great deal of it, and I would end up with a migraine the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/19 "2003-05-08T14:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > As a taste element, MSG contributes a sensation recently identified as a fifth flavor element (the others being salt, sour, bitter and sweet). Called _unami_, it is a silky perception normally associated with oleaginous or buttery foods. Mushrooms are a rich source of glutamates. It is for this reason that they frequent accompany steaks and other meats. They enhance the flavor and textural perception (i.e., mouth feel) of the meat, making it seem and taste like a more expensive cut. If you wish to perform a small experiment, prepare a common cut of beef, like sirloin. Taste an untreated piece of the cooked meat. Then dip another similar piece in some melted butter and consume it. The butter enhances mouth feel in ways similar to MSG. I am not sure if that’s the case. According to the Chinese, MSG gives food a flavour of “freshness” (\xian\), which is a difficult concept to explain. If you have eaten fresh chicken (i.e., never frozen before being cooked), there is a marked difference between that and frozen chicken. It’s also why fresh seafood tastes better than frozen ones. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507/20 "2003-05-08T14:57:56Z")
I thought the reason chinese food often has MSG is because it’s an ingredient in the meat tenderizers they use. That’s why you always seem to get msg even if you say you don’t want it. The meat tenderizer is what gives the meats in chinese goods that nasty consistency. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-msg-in-chinese-food/173507.md?page=2)