I don’t know if this is actually true, but my Chinese boyfriend told me that North American and Hong Kong/Mainland China MSG are different, with NA being more processed and chemically, which is why some people have adverse reactions to it.
I prepared a Chinese soup for my friends last weekend. Just today, one of them told me that she experienced all sorts of discomfort and skin sensitivity after the meal. Myself and the other attendee went through no such effects.
We were able to narrow down the ingredient list to some enoki mushrooms being the only food stuff she had never consumed before. I inquired and she confirmed her sensitivity to MSG.
Sailor, did you bother to read the linked article in my post? There is extensive research indicating that people experience widely varying reactions after consuming MSG (with or without accompanying food). Do I have to get all Googly on you about this?
“Reactions range from mild to very severe. Indeed, the symptoms that Dr. Ho Man Kwok reported in the first published study in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1968, for example headache and flushing of the skin, were relatively mild. However, later studies have documented more serious and sustained physical problems such as asthma, acute headaches, and life-threatening heart irregularities. Deaths have been reported. Other symptoms that might seem to be psychological in origin have also been traced to MSG consumption: extreme mood swings, irritability, depression, and even paranoia. Suicide increases may well be related to this neurotropic drug.”
Excerpt from the AMA House of Delegates Committee Resolution 515:
… "Whereas, L-glutamic acid has been shown in medical and scientific literature to pose a significant health hazard and to cross the blood-brain barrier and the placental barrier, and cause adverse reactions in 25-30 percent of the population; and
Whereas, In its July, 1992 FDA funded report entitled, “Safety of Amino Acids Used as Dietary Supplements” the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) concluded, in part, that “it is prudent to avoid the use of dietary supplements of L-glutamic acid by pregnant women, infants, and children…and…by women of childbearing age and individuals with affective disorders” …
“As early as 1957, Lucas and Newhouse (1) noticed that severe retinal lesions could be produced in suckling mice (and to some extent in adult mice) by a single injection of free glutamic acid. Studies confirming their findings using neonatal rodents (2-5) and adult rabbits (6) followed shortly thereafter, with others being reported from time to time.(7-11) Studies commencing in 1969 demonstrated that treatment with free glutamic acid caused brain lesions, particularly acute neuronal necrosis in several regions of the developing brain of neonatal mice, and acute lesions in the brains of adult mice given 5 to 7 mg/g of free glutamic acid subcutaneously.(12) Research which followed confirmed that free glutamic acid, which is usually given as the sodium salt, monosodium glutamate, induced hypothalamic damage when given to immature animals after either subcutaneous (13-34) or oral(19,25,26,28,35-39)doses. Studies completed in the 1970’s demonstrated that at least 25% of the population react to free glutamic acid in processed food, a substance popularly referred to as MSG.(40-43) Today, we recognize that MSG-reactions range from mild and transitory to debilitating and/or life threatening.(44)”
“Ingestion of monosodium glutamate (MSG) is known to produce a variety of adverse reactions in certain people. These reactions, although seemingly dissimilar, are no more diverse than the reactions found as side effects of certain neurological drugs. We do not know why some people experience reactions and others do not. We do not know whether MSG “causes” the condition underlying the reaction, or whether the underlying condition is simply aggravated by the ingestion of MSG. We only know that the reactions listed below are sometimes caused or exacerbated by ingestion of MSG …”
“… The following year, John W. Olney, M.D. reported that laboratory animals suffered brain lesions and neuroendocrine disorders after being exposed to monosodium glutamate (Olney, 1969). Scientists studying retinal degeneration in mice treated with free glutamic acid had noted that these mice became grotesquely obese. Olney, who speculated that the obesity might be a sign of damage to the hypothalamus (the area of the brain that regulates a number of endocrine functions, including weight control), found that infant laboratory animals given free glutamic acid suffered brain damage immediately, and assorted neuroendocrine disorders later in life. Pharmaceutical grade L-glutamic acid was often used to produce these disorders until neuroscientists observed that monosodium glutamate, an inexpensive food additive, could be substituted for laboratory-grade free glutamic acid in these studies and produce the same effects …”
"… Reported MSG reactions, which can occur as a result of consuming even small amounts (much less than the 1/2 gram the FDA considers to be low), include migraines; hives; mouth eruptions; numbness; tingling; swelling of mucous membranes in the oral, gastrointestinal or reproductive tract; asthma; runny nose; insomnia; seizures; mood swings; panic attacks; diarrhea; and cardiac irregularities._
Sufferers of MSG’s effects are not experiencing an “allergy.” Instead, they are experiencing the results of direct nerve stimulation and possible nerve damage, although the latter has not been verified in humans. Emergency room physician George R. Schwartz, author of “In Bad Taste: The MSG Symptom Complex,” says MSG is a “neurotoxin,” a substance that actually induces nerve changes and possible nerve damage._
Despite the fact that MSG causes known toxic reactions, and despite the fact that some labeling does exist, MSG-sensitive individuals are still at risk for becoming severely ill from food they buy at the store or order off a menu …"
Only a site sponsored by food manufacturers claimed that MSG is completely safe. I freely admit that some of the above excerpts may come from anti-MSG groups. However, the AMA groups’s recommendation that, “it is prudent to avoid the use of dietary supplements of L-glutamic acid by pregnant women, infants, and children…and…by women of childbearing age and individuals with affective disorders …” is quite enough for me.
GarniGal, one of the articles (which I cannot locate right now) did distinguish between refined and natural MSGs. You may wish to research this further.
Urban Ranger, as to umami and MSG, here is an excerpt
"… One taste sensation now gaining recognition among Western cultures is known as “UMAMI.” The UMAMI taste is conveyed by several substances naturally occurring in foods, including glutamate.
Food media conferees were challenged to identify the UMAMI taste provided by glutamate in one of three samples of chicken stock. The samples were all prepared from the same basic recipe using chicken parts and vegetables, varying only in the presence or absence of salt and monosodium glutamate (MSG). The editors were not informed which samples contained which seasonings.
When asked to identify the broth that conveyed the UMAMI taste, 60 percent of the editors correctly identified the stock containing MSG.
In terms of taste preferences, however, 75 percent of the editors indicated they preferred the broth with the UMAMI flavor contributed by glutamate. They described the taste as “rich,” “well-rounded,” “savory,” “full-bodied,” “brothy,” and “more chicken-like.”
(BOLDING ADDED)
Although UMAMI was first identified by Oriental cooks 1200 years ago, it wasn’t until the turn of this century that scientists isolated glutamate and other substances which convey this distinctive flavor. Sensory research shows that glutamate does not enhance any of the four classic tastes, nor can the UMAMI taste be formed by any combination of the classic four.
Glutamate is an amino acid that is found throughout the human body. It’s also naturally present in protein-rich foods such as cheese, meat, fish and human milk. When present in its “free” form in foods – not bound together with other amino acids in protein-glutamate exerts its UMAMI-flavor effect.
MSG added to foods provides a similar flavoring function as the “free” glutamate that occurs naturally in foods. It is often used to flavor meats, poultry, seafood, soups, stews, sauces and gravies.
Thirty-eight percent of the editors mistakenly identified the salt-only chicken stock as the one containing MSG. Although many people have the misperception that MSG makes food taste saltier, MSG contains only one-third the amount of sodium as table salt. MSG can be used in many foods to reduce the total amount of sodium by 20 to 40 percent, while maintaining an acceptable flavor …"
Phenylanaline is also an amino acid which can cause brain damage in certain people, yet we aren’t told to avoid it, because it’s safe for the majority of the population. I don’t see how the case of Glutamate any different - what proof is there that it is universally harmful to those who have no negative reaction to it?
And how does this contradict what I said that the anti-MSG thing is restricted to America? Silicon Valley is not in America? Find me studies showing people in China and Europe are just as affected. I have not found anyone yet. But for one who is predisposed to believing MSG is the cause of something then they are likely to just blame MSG for something whether MSG is to blame or not. I am still not convinced.
Yes, I have read plenty of pages and I already admitted there are many anti-MSG pages on the Net. I also told you I find them less than credible. Just because someone writes
does not make it true. Suicide increases may be related to MSG? Where is the evidence for that?
All regulatory agencies in all contries consider it safe, the AMA considers it safe and I have not seen any evidence which indicates the contrary and which I consider credible and reliable. The fact that many people out there have an agenda and web pages does not change my opinion. I can find you pages saying milk is bad or meat is bad or anything else is bad for you but that does not make it so. I just cannot take seriously all those claims that MSG causes “nerve damage” and “brain damage” and countless other awful things and there is a worldwide conspiracy to cover it up. Where are all those brain-damaged people?
At any rate, the GQ answer to the OP is:
1- Some Chinese has MSG becasue MSG makes it taste better
2- Plenty of non-Chinese food also adds MSG
3- Because, even if unfairly so, many people associate Chinese food with MSG and so, Chinese restaurants give you the option of having MSG-free food.
I think that pretty much answers the OP.
No, it’s not. Glutamic acid is an amino acid. MSG is a sodium salt of glutamic acid. They are not the same thing, although they may have similar effects. Just picking some nits…
BTW just because something is on the FDA GRAS list doesn’t mean I would wwant to eat a lot of it. Both hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide are on the http://www.pacifichealth.com/gras_list.htm list
Hey…all the people that don’t think msg is harmful. Eat lots of it…knock yourselves out…you’ll be the human guinea pigs for studies on ALS, Alzheimer’s, brain cancer and a host of other diseases. You know we have a right to remain ignorant here in America… So go ahead…eat lots of msg…you have been warned by some very wise bloggers…but if you want to be hard headed and want more research before you get Alzheimer’s and can’t remember what the other bloggers tell you…then go ahead and destroy your health! No one is stopping you. There’s a saying in the medical community…" You can’t cure stupid"… I don’t want to upset you…but the Bible says we hurt ourselves not due to kaxk of faith… But because if lack of knowledge. So eat lots if MSG and see what happens… I only pray for you…that a light bulb will light up one day and you guys will see the light…by the way …msg is a flavor enhancer…but isn’t it ironic that when you get yo the hospital… The food is generally horrible and has no taste. Also if you end up in ICU, you will be on IV drips for nutrition ( parental nutrition) or have a tube out up your nose to your stomach . either case…you won’t taste anything!
Mmmmm… delicious zombies.
Or just eat regular, natural proteins. You will get lots of it that way.
Or don’t eat any protein, and starve to death.
I see you are exercising it.
The difference between glutamic acid and glutamate is just the acidity of the solution, glutamic acid and glutamate differ by the number of protons bound. Therefore, in the stomach, where the pH normally is lower (more acidic) than the proton dissociation constant of the glutamic acid side chain, glutamate is converted to glutamic acid, while in the intestine, where the pH is higher (more alkaline), both the glutamic acid side chain and the alpha-carboxy group are deprotonated. Therefore, independently of whether the glutamic acid your body takes up was added to your food from a shaker labelled MSG or was produced by your digestive juices chopping up the protein in the food you ate into its constituent amino acid, chemically it is the same thing.
Like in most things, it is the dose that makes the poison: If you take huge amounts of MSG, it is not good for you. The LD50 in rats (dose at which 50% of the exposed animals die) is 20 g/kg body weight for MSG, compared to 3 g/kg for table salt. So like salt, MSG should be used in moderation, it’s a seasoning, not food. However, under normal circumstances, you get far more glutamate from your steak than from the MSG containing seasoning mix you put on it.
I think you’re meant to feed salt to zombies, but in this particular case there may be a more effective repellent, if only I can think of it.
Ah yes. As we all know being a blogger gives you extra wisdom. Unfortunately for you, I have been informed by some even wiser bloggers that the MSG-scare is overblown at best, and all bark and no bite at the best.
Moderator Action
Welcome to the SDMB, albert75.
The General Questions forum is for questions with factual answers, and we ask that you do reply factually for topics. This is not a blog, and blog style posts that merely express an opinion are generally frowned upon in this forum. There are other forums on this site where you can express your opinions.
Also, we tend to refer to old threads that have been resurrected like this as zombies. We do allows zombies here, but we ask that you only revive old threads if you have new information or something substantial factually to contribute.
Since this thread was revived simply to express opinions, I’m going to put this poor little zombie back in his grave.
Thread closed.