# Why is there no culture of football hooliganism in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567 "2012-10-03T10:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/61 "2012-10-04T03:24:20Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > How much hooliganism is/was there in rugby? Cricket? > > Is there a typical demographic profile of hooligans? > > What British locations are best known for their hooliganism? > > Hooliganism seems to have decreased in the last few decades, any ideas on what caused that decrease? There have been a few incidents in cricket of crowd violence. Notably India were disqualfied in the 1996 World Cup Semi Final due to the home crowd throwing a large amount of projectiles onto the field. The English supporters are actually a very nice lot, they call themselves the “Barmy Army”. Very interestingly, there is quite a bit of overlap between hardcore footy supporters and this group, yet they never seem to misbehave. The Southern Hemisphere blokes imbibe an atrocious amount of alcohol at matches, but the only thing that seems to happen is a large amount of vomiting and if you are lucky some breast flashing. The Carribian ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/62 "2012-10-04T03:31:19Z")
Well, my first thought was that soccer puts Americans to sleep, rather than riling them up. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/63 "2012-10-04T09:19:43Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > How much hooliganism is/was there in rugby? Hardly any in either code. The violence is on the pitch, as they say, not in the stands. Nor is it a class issue, as union tends to be a middle class game but league is most definitely watched more by the Northern lower classes. ---
**Author:** ![mo50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@mo50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mo50)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/64 "2012-10-04T11:39:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You guys have never been to a Raiders game, obviously. Or gone to a Philadelphia Eagles game wearing the visiting team’s jersey. They used to have a courtroom and a jail at the old Veteran’s Stadium. Don’t know if that went with them to the new place. I also remember in the 70’s there used to be alot of brawling in the stands at Yankee-Red Sox games, but that seems to have cooled off in recent years. It certainly never was the organized type of thing you used to see in Britain, where hooligans would travel as a group even to matches in Europe and so forth. Bill Bruford’s book Among the Thugs is a fascinating account of that phenomenon. I haven’t heard much about that kinda thing recently though. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/65 "2012-10-04T12:49:21Z")
Just once I’d like to see a thread about any aspect of soccer where some dick doesn’t thread-shit to let everybody know how stupid the most popular sport on the planet is. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/66 "2012-10-04T13:23:08Z")
Hey everybody! Soccer is stupid! I’m kidding. I’m upset because I can’t find a place to watch el clasico. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/67 "2012-10-04T16:06:02Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Just once I’d like to see a thread about any aspect of soccer where some dick doesn’t thread-shit to let everybody know how stupid the most popular sport on the planet is. I dunno if you meant my post, but if you did, you’re mischaracterizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/68 "2012-10-04T16:40:09Z")
That set me off, but \*\*TriPolar’s \*\*was the birth. He is my soccer nemesis, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/69 "2012-10-04T16:43:58Z")
Well, on further reading, RickJay (#54) expressed the same concept I did, although I was funnier. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/70 "2012-10-04T16:53:09Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > It used to happen often at hockey games bewteen the New York Islanders and the New York Rangers. Especially when the teams were both competitive at the same time. Nowadays it’s the Rangers that are the better team and the rivalry has lost much of its lustre. Do Rangers fans at MSG still yell “Potvin sucks!” at every slack moment, or has that finally died off? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/71 "2012-10-04T19:27:24Z")
I am not a sports fan by any stretch, I just wanted to say I love the word “hooligan”. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/72 "2012-10-04T19:54:32Z")
\*\*Why is there no culture of football hooliganism in the US? \*\* The sissies running around in knee socks trying to kick the ball in what you call football remind us of taking our little girls to what we call soccer games. Until they are 10 years old and even they realize it’s a pussy sport. Grown men play real football here. And it doesn’t look like a bunch of unemployed male ballet dancers running around on a big grassy field kicking a ball without ever making a fucking score. How can anyone who is a fan possibly have something to argue about after the game? Did you see when Bob almost kicked it close to the goal? Man, that was fucking exciting, wasn’t it? Did you see when Nigel fell down and made it look like a foul? And then what happened, they tossed the ball back in from the side lines. I can hardly contain myself. An exciting soccer match might end in a score of 1 to 0. Meanwhile the fans of the game have been getting quite shitty drunk. Is it any wonder that they riot? And ‘hooligans’ sounds a lot like something your mums would call you. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/73 "2012-10-04T20:02:48Z")
> [@mo50](#): > > Or gone to a Philadelphia Eagles game wearing the visiting team’s jersey. They used to have a courtroom and a jail at the old Veteran’s Stadium. Don’t know if that went with them to the new place. I also remember in the 70’s there used to be alot of brawling in the stands at Yankee-Red Sox games, but that seems to have cooled off in recent years. Baseball in general had a lot of problem in the 1970s with violence and drunkenness in the stands. A major league game 35 years ago wasn’t often a nice place to bring your family. There wasn’t anything particularly noteworthy about the Yankees-Red Sox games (the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry wasn’t really as big a deal back then as it is now, aside from the flareup in 1978.) MLB solved the problem though a number of ways, including limits on beer sales and a willingness to have ushers intervene if someone complained about rowdy behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/74 "2012-10-04T20:05:57Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > \*\*Why is there no culture of football hooliganism in the US? \*\* > > The sissies running around in knee socks trying to kick the ball in what you call football remind us of taking our little girls to what we call soccer games. Until they are 10 years old and even they realize it’s a pussy sport. > > [testosterone laden frothing excised] And like clockwork the prophesy is fulfilled. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/75 "2012-10-04T20:31:50Z")
I think one main reason that has been alluded to but not fully discussed here is the condensed nature of the leagues in Europe, and the connections between the sport and social classes in the eras when hooliganism was at a peak. In London alone there are 6 Premier League teams this season, and a few dozen other professional teams, each with their own fan base and supporters. As someone else mentioned, travelling from one city to another is much, much easier than in North America (imagine being a Patriots fan who wants to see them play the Raiders in LA). It’s just plain easier for these groups to form, create an identity and then explode in violence when the so-called enemy comes to their turf. Plus a lot of teams are very, very old, and have generational support and a connection to a neighbourhood that doesn’t exist to the same degree here. In comparison, most North American cities that have a team in a league have one team, and only a small number have two. Even as an Ottawa Senators fan (that’s hockey and Ottawa is the capital of Canada, America’s hat), our generally-considered rival is the Toronto Maple Leafs (Toronto’s the city where they film a lot of movies) and they’re 4 hours away by car. Plus tickets to see them are almost impossible to get and cost a lot. Football in the UK and the rest of Europe is generally cheaper, and closer together. Plus I think the relationship to social class and economic standing cannot be dismissed. Football hooliganism peaked in the rough years before Thatcher came into power, when there was a lot of youth unemployment and wages were low for a lot of low-class work. Frustrated and under-employed young men are a dangerous problem. ---
**Author:** ![mo50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@mo50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mo50)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/76 "2012-10-04T22:03:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Baseball in general had a lot of problem in the 1970s with violence and drunkenness in the stands. A major league game 35 years ago wasn’t often a nice place to bring your family. There wasn’t anything particularly noteworthy about the Yankees-Red Sox games (the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry wasn’t really as big a deal back then as it is now, aside from the flareup in 1978.) > > MLB solved the problem though a number of ways, including limits on beer sales and a willingness to have ushers intervene if someone complained about rowdy behaviour. You’re of course correct on the larger MLB rowdiness in the 70’s. The disco demolition night at Comiskey Park, and the nickel beer night at Municipal Stadium come to mind, where fans just got shitfaced and ran amok. The Yanees Red Sox thing is just a personal recollection. Other places may well have been just as bad. And hey, while we’re at it, didn’t the Patriots get banned from Monday night football because drunken fans set Schaefer Stadium on fire and threatened Cosell or something crazy like that? I seem to recall something along those lines. No shortage of drunken morons here in the US! Woohoo! In your face world! U!S!A! U!S!A! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/77 "2012-10-04T22:40:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Bill Bryson’s explanation; the Police would shoot you. That. Never mind who Bryson is, I haven’t heard of him before, either. The “shooting” part is what counts. Also, the guy you are punching might shoot you. Or his girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/78 "2012-10-04T22:53:55Z")
Hmmmmm, let’s see here. Are there “political” teams in the U.S., in the sense that, say, fans of the New York Islanders tend to be Democrats, fans of the New England Patriots tend to be Republicans, the Chicago Bulls really fucking hate stem-cell research while the Dallas Stars are BFFs with the KKK? Because plenty of European soccer teams are political like that – in Italy, Livorno is the “communist” club, while Lazio is the “fascist” club. In Spain, the royal family roots for Real Madrid, while Barcelona fans tend to favor Catalan independence. In Germany, St. Pauli is the go-to team for proudly unwashed anarchist punks with crusty ol’ dreadlocks, while pristine-lederhosen’d apple-cheeked Bavarian engineers proudly yodel away for Bayern München. In the U.K., Liverpool was founded by poor Irish immigrants, will all that entails - while Chelsea, well, fuck Chelsea and the Russian they rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/79 "2012-10-05T00:27:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s actually soccer hooliganism and we don’t play soccer in this country (for Americans unfamiliar with the term soccer, it’s also known as Canadian Lawn Dancing). Here in the US we play real football, which means the players are the hooligans. Soccer hooligans are the result of a pre-teen girls game used as an actual sport for men, even if they are British. If you’ve ever seen the game of soccer you’d understand why the crowd gets violent. There really should be a ‘Like’ button here. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567/80 "2012-10-05T01:26:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Can you demonstrate this actually happens after every major sports championship? Of course, you can’t. It’s ridiculous. The few notable examples are outliers. [LMGTFY](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=steelers+super+bowl+riots) It wasn’t _quite_ as bad when the Pens won the Stanley Cup, but that’s only because the police knew what to expect this time around, and also because it was summer, and there weren’t as many college students there. Still, it IS a phenemenon in Pittsburgh, which is a huge sports city. In fact, a coworker of mine was telling me that he and a friend were burning a sofa after the AFC championship. And that was prior to the Super Bowl. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-culture-of-football-hooliganism-in-the-us/636567.md?page=5)