# Why is there no gas in NY, NJ, and CN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846 "2012-11-04T13:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/41 "2012-11-04T21:44:25Z")
I just wanted to put out there that my sister works for a fuel distribution company (SunCoast Resources), and she was flown out to NJ the day after the hurricane (from Houston) to help distribute gas to the stations that need it. I’m sure she’s not the only one, so I just wanted to let you guys know that companies everywhere are working on getting the supply restored ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/42 "2012-11-04T22:27:39Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Sorry… just couldn’t pass on this one. > > “Well, the brakes are shot on this one, but there’s an emergency. Grab this tanker with 9,000 gallons of highly flammable fuel and head over those mountains!” How about this: “You know those two trucks that need new brakes that you were planning on fixing next week? How about working a little late and over the weekend, and getting them ready a little sooner? They sure could use them in the Northeast!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/43 "2012-11-04T22:43:18Z")
> [@boozilu](#): > > Finally, it is my understanding that as soon as a dealer orders gas, the funds are paid to the oil company. If a typical station has 20,000 gallons or more of storage, at $4/gallon that’s a lot of inventory cost to sit on if the demand doesn’t materialize. Plus, if it’s anything like in Canada, gasoline sales are actually very low-margin for the retailer. If I’m a gas station owner in a area about to be hit by a storm it’s likely a better use of limited capital to bring in stock like bottled water. It’s in demand, possible to sell without power, no potential hazardous waste clean-up and way higher profit margin. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/44 "2012-11-05T00:40:20Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That’s absolutely part of it , just like it always is for the traditional run on bread,milk and toilet paper ( **why toilet paper, I don’t know** ) right before any significant weather event. Blame [Johnny Carson](http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/trivia74.html). ETA: sigh. I suppose I have to add, Johnny Carson was the former host of The Tonight Show. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/45 "2012-11-05T06:15:17Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > highly populous NYC does not have a lot of gas stations, and you have a problem. While I’m not sure what point Musicat is trying to make – LIHOP, perhaps? – I’m not sure gas stations per capita is the relevant figure, since New York has unusually few cars per capita. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/46 "2012-11-05T06:32:17Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > While I’m not sure what point Musicat is trying to make – LIHOP, perhaps? – I’m not sure gas stations per capita is the relevant figure, since New York has unusually few cars per capita. There are far more cars than you might think and there are far too many. Try to find a parking space. A monthly spot in a garage in Manhattan will run you approximately $500 + or - a month depending on location. As I pointed out in an earlier post, gas stations take up a lot of real estate. that’s space that can oftentimes be utilized to produce revenue far beyond what pumping gas will generate. Gas stations disappearing in Manhattan has been a recognized problem, especially for the cab drivers. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/47 "2012-11-05T07:45:39Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Certainly there are people who are trying to fill their tanks even though they really don’t have to, making the shortage worse. In theory, this could be mitigated if price gouging laws didn’t exist. The idea being that as the price goes up, people who don’t really need gas will stay away (and increased profits can motivate an increase in supply). Sucks if you _do_ need gas and can’t afford it, of course (though you’re equally screwed if you can’t buy gas because there isn’t any left to buy). Effective or not, I wouldn’t want to be a politician responsible for removing such laws come the next disaster, of course. ---
**Author:** ![CorkY21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@CorkY21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CorkY21)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/48 "2012-11-05T09:41:44Z")
Sandy came to ny and caused the most damage in wealthy NYC neighborhoods where loss of electricity rendered those areas helpless. Virtually all of the so called ghettos in the outer boroughs were left unscathed maintaining power and normalcy. The gas stations in the outer boroughs have power and some even gas but are being instructed not to sell the gas or be refueled as to limit the mobility throughout the city until those wealthy neighborhoods hit hard by sandy have their power restored. There is a fear that looters may take advantage of this opportunity to wreak havoc in the wealthy areas. Our so called crisis is nothing more than a control tactic at the expense of the so called minorities who reside in the outer boroughs. ---
**Author:** ![icefalkon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dc4da7/32.png) [@icefalkon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icefalkon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/49 "2012-11-05T10:51:59Z")
> [@CorkY21](#): > > Sandy came to ny and caused the most damage in wealthy NYC neighborhoods where loss of electricity rendered those areas helpless. Virtually all of the so called ghettos in the outer boroughs were left unscathed maintaining power and normalcy. The gas stations in the outer boroughs have power and some even gas but are being instructed not to sell the gas or be refueled as to limit the mobility throughout the city until those wealthy neighborhoods hit hard by sandy have their power restored. There is a fear that looters may take advantage of this opportunity to wreak havoc in the wealthy areas. Our so called crisis is nothing more than a control tactic at the expense of the so called minorities who reside in the outer boroughs. LOL Holy Christ where the heck did you get this nonsense???!!!?? You are so off man, nothing in your post has a shred of credibility! Only wealthy areas were hit by Sandy in NYC? What are you on crack? How about Breezy Point, how about Long Beach, How about St. Albans, idiot. Now about the gas stations…you bigger idiot. They are not “hoarding gas” moron. No one told them “not to sell gas”. My brother WORKS at a gas station as a Manager and I literally just got off the phone with him telling him about your retarded post. You have completely fabricated your story there slim. Get a life you conspiracy theorist idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/50 "2012-11-05T11:37:58Z")
Do gasoline deliveries outside of the normal delivery cycle cost more? Can the stations pass that cost on? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/51 "2012-11-05T11:47:56Z")
Musicat: > [@](#): > > The news is full of stories about how lacking it was. Maybe you haven’t seen them due to lack of power? I’m well aware of the ongoing problems - as I mentioned earlier, I’m pretty much out of gas myself at the moment - the issue is how much more or more quickly could reasonably be expected to have been done. Everyone who has some degree of responsibility for the various affected matters seems to be working overtime. There’s just that much damage to deal with, and everyone’s only human. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/52 "2012-11-05T12:48:56Z")
By the way, my unscientific observations indicate that the situation is improving quite a bit in North Jersey. Perhaps it’s because more supply is coming in; perhaps it’s because more gas stations are getting electricity. But I have a strong feeling that a lot of it is the odd/even rationing plan. I think a lot of people were buying gas every day not because they needed it, but because it is precious. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/53 "2012-11-05T15:09:43Z")
The alternate-day fuel rationing was a good move - I agree that a lot of the problem may have involved people panicking and seeking to top up no matter what. > [@cmkeller](#): > > I’m well aware of the ongoing problems - as I mentioned earlier, I’m pretty much out of gas myself at the moment - the issue is how much more or more quickly could reasonably be expected to have been done. Everyone who has some degree of responsibility for the various affected matters seems to be working overtime. There’s just that much damage to deal with, and everyone’s only human. Not from NYC, but from the traditional Hurricane Belt, and I back the various statements from the in-area residents. These things cause a lot of unpredictable damage. Specially in barrier island and coastal-lowland environments you will have a lot of washed out infrastructure impeding transportation and supply; and the aerial power grid is not easy to get back online. > [@Musicat](#): > > “You know those two trucks that need new brakes that you were planning on fixing next week? How about working a little late and over the weekend, and getting them ready a little sooner? They sure could use them in the Northeast!” You would not know how many you needed and where to send them until _ **after** _ the event (meaning washed out roads and powerless stations) anyway. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/54 "2012-11-05T15:27:03Z")
I read on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) one interesting theory where people go crazy just on the idea that there is a shortage and lineups. It would be like in more ordinary time people organize a gas station flash-mob gathering. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/55 "2012-11-05T16:28:51Z")
53 posts in this thread and not a single real attempt at a factual answer? What is wrong with you people? The problem of course is not a shortage of oil but of refined products (diesel, gasoline, heating oil, etc). This is the result of refineries in the East Coast being shut in. Specifically, Hess and Phillips 66 have refineries in New Jersey with a combined refining capacity of 308 thousand barrels per day that are still shut in from the storm. It is difficult to make up the difference by transporting refined products from the Gulf Coast. One thing that can add to the difficulty is a lack of U.S. flagged vessels: as a result of the 1920 Jones Act, goods transported between U.S. ports must be done by U.S. flagged vessels. Since we don’t typically transport that much refined product from the Gulf Coast to the East Coast, there really aren’t that many ships capable of doing it. It requires a waiver from the President to override Jones Act requirements. There were in fact six vessels within a 100 mile radius of the port of New York waiting since October 28 for a waiver. The Obama Administration did so on Friday, which has helped. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/56 "2012-11-05T17:55:44Z")
> [@icefalkon](#): > > LOL Holy Christ where the heck did you get this nonsense???!!!?? You are so off man, nothing in your post has a shred of credibility! Only wealthy areas were hit by Sandy in NYC? What are you on crack? How about Breezy Point, how about Long Beach, How about St. Albans, idiot. > > Now about the gas stations…you bigger idiot. They are not “hoarding gas” moron. No one told them “not to sell gas”. My brother WORKS at a gas station as a Manager and I literally just got off the phone with him telling him about your retarded post. You have completely fabricated your story there slim. > > Get a life you conspiracy theorist idiot. **Moderator Warning** **icefalkon** , personal insults are not permitted in this forum, or any other forum on this board outside the BBQ Pit. This is an official warning. I suggest you read the rules and FAQs for this site before you continued to post. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/57 "2012-11-05T18:00:40Z")
> [@CorkY21](#): > > Sandy came to ny and caused the most damage in wealthy NYC neighborhoods where loss of electricity rendered those areas helpless. Virtually all of the so called ghettos in the outer boroughs were left unscathed maintaining power and normalcy. The gas stations in the outer boroughs have power and some even gas but are being instructed not to sell the gas or be refueled as to limit the mobility throughout the city until those wealthy neighborhoods hit hard by sandy have their power restored. There is a fear that looters may take advantage of this opportunity to wreak havoc in the wealthy areas. Our so called crisis is nothing more than a control tactic at the expense of the so called minorities who reside in the outer boroughs. **Moderator Note** **CorkY21** , General Questions is for factual responses. If you want to propose conspiracy theories, open a new thread in Great Debates. Be prepared to support your allegations with factual information there, too. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/58 "2012-11-05T18:21:15Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Just speculating, but I wonder if a lot of the shortage is being caused by the perception of a shortage. Of the 3 people I know who waited for hours to buy gas, two of them had 3/4 of a tank left. One of them had 1/2 of a tank left. I find this strange. I myself did the exact opposite - assuming the problem would be temporary I went down to almost completely empty on one of my cars and tried to drive mostly the others. (I didn’t buy any gas all of last week, until the situation eased up yesterday and I filled two cars.) > [@LonghornDave](#): > > The problem of course is not a shortage of oil but of refined products (diesel, gasoline, heating oil, etc). This is the result of refineries in the East Coast being shut in. Specifically, Hess and Phillips 66 have refineries in New Jersey with a combined refining capacity of 308 thousand barrels per day that are still shut in from the storm. Also, electritricity is required to get the gas from the big tanks that you see on the side of the Turnpike into the gas trucks. Major power outages in the Linden area are responsible for a lot of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/59 "2012-11-05T18:57:38Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I just wanted to put out there that my sister works for a fuel distribution company (SunCoast Resources), and she was flown out to NJ the day after the hurricane (from Houston) to help distribute gas to the stations that need it. I’m sure she’s not the only one, so I just wanted to let you guys know that companies everywhere are working on getting the supply restored ASAP. I would assume/hope that part of that distribution plan would be to pump the gas out of the tanks at the stations that don’t have power and deliver it to the stations that do have power. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846/60 "2012-11-05T20:08:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I find this strange. > > I myself did the exact opposite - \*\*assuming the problem would be temporary \*\*I went down to almost completely empty on one of my cars and tried to drive mostly the others. You likely differ from them in two respects: 1 - you assume the problem is temporary. Your definition of “temporary” here implicitly means “the shortage won’t last beyond my current amount of fuel”, which in turn is probably because… 2 - you have multiple vehicles for your personal use (the alternates of which are effectively backup reservoirs of fuel, albeit non-transferable without a siphon). These people probably have only the one car that they absolutely cannot afford to have run 100% out of fuel. Or perhaps they have two cars, but need both for a husband and wife to drive separately to work in order to maintain a dual income household. Either way, their denominator is smaller than yours, and their desperation is correspondingly higher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-gas-in-ny-nj-and-cn/639846.md?page=4)