# Why is there no great city where the Ohio River meets the Mississippi? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902 "2005-07-03T06:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/21 "2005-07-05T00:29:44Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > **The ripe smell?** > I’ve never been to Cairo, but somebody here mentioned the Karo corn syrup made there. I have been near a corn sugar plant outside of Lafayette, Indiana, and it has a rich, funky aroma for miles downwind. To my knowledge, **Karo** was never produced in Cairo and has nothing to do with Cairo’s funky smell. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/22 "2005-07-05T00:31:41Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > **The ripe smell?** > I’ve never been to Cairo, but somebody here mentioned the Karo corn syrup made there. I have been near a corn sugar plant outside of Lafayette, Indiana, and it has a rich, funky aroma for miles downwind. Cairo, GEORGIA. Post #7 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/23 "2005-07-05T00:49:28Z")
Interesting link, **elelle**. Most pithy to the OP in that article seems to be the following: > [@](#): > > The problem with trying to live in Cairo back then (and still today) is the very rivers that make the location strategic. Most sensible cities along these rivers are situated on high ground. For example right across the Ohio is Wickliffe Kentucky which sits hundreds of feet above the river on a bluff. Cairo’s high ground is their levee. Both the Ohio and the Mississippi have a regular habit of trying to wash little Cairo away ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/24 "2005-07-05T01:14:14Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Transportation centers don’t arise along the route; they generally occur where the means of transportation change. Hard to argue with this logic. However, it does not take into account completely undeveloped areas, where there may be no other means of transportation than rivers. Such a city was Marietta, at the junction of the Ohio and Muskingum Rivers. Became the de facto capital of the Northwest Territory and a “major city” by the standards of that wilderness area, very much in the spirit of the OP. > [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Cincinnati… Seems like there were also a decent number of people who wrecked there or got stranded for whatever reason and just decided to stay. This reminded me of a sign I saw upriver of Cincinnati, downriver of Marietta, in Gallipolis: > [@](#): > > The Landing of the Welsh in Gallipolis > 1818…From Baltimore they traveled to Pittsburgh and then by flatboats down the Ohio River toward their destination - Paddy’s Run in Butler County in the southwest corner of Ohio. They stopped in Gallipolis for provisions where their boats were cut loose by either travel-weary women or citizens of Gallipolis who wanted them to stay… ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/25 "2005-07-05T01:34:50Z")
\*For example right across the Ohio is Wickliffe Kentucky which sits hundreds of feet above the river on a bluff. \* Of course, Wickliffe didn’t exactly become a thriving metropolis, either, despite the paper mills which give the entire area its distinctive odor. Another problem with Cairo is that there’s really no good way out of there. Once you get past the flood plain, you’re immediately into hills and forests – not the most hospitable area to build a railroad. So instead of having one great port, it made more sense to have three small ones: Cairo, Wickliffe and Charleston, MO. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/26 "2005-07-05T01:47:13Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > FWIW, neither of the Miami rivers is really navigable, at least in terms of commerce. There is another river that flows down into Kentucky\* from the Ohio at Cincinnati, I think it’s the Green River. My understanding is that Cincinnati is where it is because there was an easy access point there for ships to stop and load. Seems like there were also a decent number of people who wrecked there or got stranded for whatever reason and just decided to stay. > > \*It probably actually flows up into the Ohio, but I don’t really know. Navigatable is the key term. Little rivers like the Des Moines which forms the very SE corner of Iowa at Keokuk and flows into the Mississippi were navigatable during certain times of the year. Steamers even made it as far inland as Des Moines. The draft of some of those steamers was only 3 feet. Even on the Mississippi river itself there were rock bars that stopped navigation during low water. One such place was north of Keokuk at Montrose. QUOTE tomndebb Actually, I’m not sure that the premise of the OP is correct. Certainly Pittsburgh and Albany represent major cities on confluences and I guess we could claim St. Louis for the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers (although their actual confluence is more than 15 miles from downtown St. Louis which would have made it over a day’s travel away prior to the steamboat–and still a several hour trip for an upbound boat in the early days of steam). I have some difficulty with the “Gateway” claim for the exact reason you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/27 "2005-07-05T05:18:23Z")
> [@Doug Bowe](#): > > Fall line cities in Virginia are Richmond, on the fall line of the James; Petersburg on the fall line of the appomattox and Fredericksberg on the fall line of the Rappahannock. More importantly, the fall line was a source of power. Major cities dot the fall line all along inland from the east coast–and the fall line comes to the coast at New York City. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/28 "2005-07-05T12:23:05Z")
For what it’s worth, Binghamton NY sits at the confluence of the Susquehanna and Chenango Rivers. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/29 "2005-07-05T13:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > For what it’s worth, Binghamton NY sits at the confluence of the Susquehanna and Chenango Rivers. More precisely, the Tri-City area of Binghamton, Elmira, and Johnson City. I lived there for a while. The area was home to the shoe company that gave us Enna Jetticks (the streets are named after the members of the Johnson family), and leter of IBM and General Electric, although that’s changed. Most of the time, it ain’t a mighty confluence (I had to lie down in the river to get it up to my neck), but if the flood control walls are any indication, the river on occasion could get pretty high. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/30 "2005-07-05T14:26:29Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > More precisely, the Tri-City area of Binghamton, Elmira, and Johnson City. I lived there for a while. I think you meant Endicott - not Elmira. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/31 "2005-07-05T14:29:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by CalMeacham > More precisely, the Tri-City area of Binghamton, Elmira, and Johnson City. I lived there for a while. > > I think you meant Endicott - not Elmira. Dang, you’re right. Although Elmira’s nearby. Endicott=-Johnson shoes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/32 "2005-07-05T21:08:10Z")
There may be another reason why Cairo is not a bigger town- [the New Madrid earthquake zone.](http://www.vibrationdata.com/earthquakes/newmadrid.htm) ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/33 "2005-07-05T23:01:12Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > Navigatable is the key term. > Little rivers like the Des Moines which forms the very SE corner of Iowa at Keokuk and flows into the Mississippi were navigatable during certain times of the year. I remember the vestigal remains of a dam and the ruins of the locks on the Des Moines River at Bonaparte IA in the early thirties. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/34 "2005-07-05T23:18:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Most of the time, it ain’t a mighty confluence (I had to lie down in the river to get it up to my neck) … My how the strams have deteriorated since my grandmother left Chenago Forks. She used to spin yarns about how she and her friends would picnic along the banks of the beautiful Chenago. Are you saying my grandmother exaggerated? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/35 "2005-07-06T04:49:34Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > I remember the vestigal remains of a dam and the ruins of the locks on the Des Moines River at Bonaparte IA in the early thirties. Yep They are still there. Certainly not the way you remember them but their whereabouts is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/36 "2005-07-06T05:11:48Z")
We are forgetting that long before the steam boat Barges, keel boats, batteau, pirogue, kentucky broadhorn and Mackinaw’s hauled freight up and down these rivers.Some barges were 20 feet wide and 100 feet long. They had sails and were rowed by as many as 50 men. St Louis was a town long before the steam boat. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/37 "2005-07-06T07:04:55Z")
> [@](#): > > St Louis was a town long before the steam boat. And? St. Louis is more than a day’s journey by canoe from the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri. (St. Louis might have been a good place to portage from the Mississippi to the Missouri while avoiding the Missouri delta, but I do not know whether that played a role in the founding and growth of the town.) So where does your datum fit into the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902/38 "2005-07-07T05:12:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And? > > St. Louis is more than a day’s journey by canoe from the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri. (St. Louis might have been a good place to portage from the Mississippi to the Missouri while avoiding the Missouri delta, but I do not know whether that played a role in the founding and growth of the town.) > > So where does your datum fit into the discussion? The discussion was drifting toward steamboats is all. Just a little knit. It made more sense than a discussion of the Po valley. This country was settled much differently than anything in Europe. A lso it seems to me that a better method of entering the missouri would be to enter it from upstream. That way you wouldn’t have to fight currents from 2 rivers for so long.I can easily see why St Louis would be the distribution point for goods coming down the missouri headed south but not goods or people going up the Missouri or western goods bound for any northern states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-no-great-city-where-the-ohio-river-meets-the-mississippi/310902.md?page=1)