# Why is there not a legitimate alternative to the democrats and republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959 "2011-08-08T16:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/1 "2011-08-08T16:29:37Z")
It doesn’t make sense to me why we only have two “real” political parties. When elections roll around, our only options seem to be either vote for the liberal or vote for the conservative. And the problem for me is, the democrat is socially and fiscally liberal, while the conservative is socially and fiscally conservative. Why is there no option for socially liberal but fiscally conservative, or vice versa? Surely I’m not the only pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, liberal who also wants lower taxes and smaller government. I would love to vote republican, but alas, most years I’m stuck voting democrat because I would take a candidate who wants to raise taxes over one who gets his policy advice from the bible. So I wonder, why are there no social liberals and fiscal conservatives, or fiscal liberals and social conservatives? I realize that there are “middle of the road” members of each party. So-called conservative democrats and liberal republicans. And I realize that something like the libertarian party could probably be called socially liberal and fiscally conservative. But it seems to me that these alternatives don’t ever stand a chance of getting elected. Help me understand why. ---
**Author:** ![tetranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tetranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tetranz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/2 "2011-08-08T17:08:37Z")
The US voting system strongly favors two parties and makes it very difficult for a third party to get anywhere. We need a system which allows you to vote for a minor candidate without “throwing your vote away” or helping the candidate that you least want to be elected. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/3 "2011-08-08T17:17:37Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > Surely I’m not the only pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, liberal who also wants lower taxes and smaller government. Have to say PREACH BROTHER PREACH! and this line made me snort cause I describe and consider myself to be on the conservative side, and concur with choice and gay marriage ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/4 "2011-08-08T17:19:21Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > And I realize that something like the libertarian party could probably be called socially liberal and fiscally conservative. But it seems to me that these alternatives don’t ever stand a chance of getting elected. Help me understand why. Well you got the first step right, and figured out where you most appropriately identify with. Check plus for you. But you failed to realize that you and the rest of the people that strongly identify with you are in the minority…severely so. As such, that’s why “these alternatives don’t ever stand a chance of getting elected.” As such many people that do identify with you choose the lesser of two evils with regard to which thing they feel more strongly about. If they feel more strongly about fiscal conservatism, they will normally support the Republican candidate. If they feel more strongly about social liberalism, then they will support the democratic candidate. A lot of these people are also considered moderates and will swing their vote based upon the issues of the day. As such while they are still a minority in their own right, it is this group of moderates that normally determines the outcomes of our presidential elections, as the number of true die hard Republicans or Democrats are not enough to hold the majority. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/5 "2011-08-08T17:21:14Z")
One of the few things Democrats and Republicans can work together on is keeping third parties down. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/6 "2011-08-08T17:54:00Z")
Any good idea that a third party comes up with gets co-opted by the Democrats or Republicans, which means that all you’re left with is lunatic ideas and nuttery. That’s why third parties can’t break into the mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/7 "2011-08-08T17:54:26Z")
Everyone knows neither party can withstand a fracture nor lose any of their voters to a third party. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/8 "2011-08-08T18:01:42Z")
> [@brittekland](#): > > Everyone knows neither party can withstand a fracture nor lose any of their voters to a third party. Bill Clinton was the beneficiary of such actions. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/9 "2011-08-08T19:06:52Z")
Plurality systems tend to two parties. In other words, if the winner is the person with the most votes, third parties can’t gain power unless there’s a major social upheaval or political upheaval. In the US, that was slavery; in the UK, it was the enfranchisement of the working class, which led to the Labour Party replacing the Liberal Party. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/10 "2011-08-08T19:20:22Z")
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/11 "2011-08-08T19:49:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Plurality systems tend to two parties. In other words, if the winner is the person with the most votes, third parties can’t gain power unless there’s a major social upheaval or political upheaval. Possibly related to [Hotelling’s Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotelling%27s_law). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/12 "2011-08-08T19:51:51Z")
Wasn’t there another recent thread about this topic? ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/13 "2011-08-08T20:12:14Z")
Given the recent addition of the Tea Party to the American spectrum, I must say I’m surprised (as someone who watches from afar), that they have not broken away from the GOP, with the Republicans repositioning themselves as a centrist party. Seems to me that whatever losses they would suffer would be mitigated by the fact that they would be the kingmaker in the congress and senate between the Democracts and the Tea Party. But given that U.S. is not a parliamentary system like Canada or the UK, I could be way off base here! ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/14 "2011-08-08T23:23:17Z")
They haven’t broken away because as I understand it the Tea Party doesn’t consider itself to be a political party nor do they have any plans to become one, that I am aware of. they consider themselves to be a conservative political activist group (or what ever the correct wording is) ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/15 "2011-08-09T04:50:15Z")
Because when you have to divide the pie into three’s, it don’t come out even. I vote for who I feel represents me best, somebody who “puts a little English on it.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/16 "2011-08-09T04:55:07Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Because when you have to divide the pie into three’s, it don’t come out even. > I vote for who I feel represents me best, somebody who “puts a little English on it.” Slight modification for me: I vote for who will be in the best position to help me best. A third party candidate might be closer to me policy-wise, but I’m not going to get anything I want by supporting her/him. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/17 "2011-08-09T04:59:56Z")
The problem with third parties as legit contenders boils down to money. The serious money in politics goes to candidates the donors think have a real shot at winning. That’s the only way the donors can get a return on the investment, so to speak. A third party candidate pretty much needs to walk on water while changing it into wine to convince big money donors he can win. As magical powers don’t actually exist, such candidates are…rare. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/18 "2011-08-09T05:02:39Z")
1. From elementary on up, teachers all seem to parrot the phrase that ‘a third party wouldn’t work in America.’ That is a blamed lot of programming that you will have to overcome. 2. Any good, really good ideas that a third party comes up with would be co-opted by one of the two major ones. hh ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/19 "2011-08-09T12:23:28Z")
Socially liberal, economically conservative = Libertarian Nowwww, socially conservative, economically liberal, that used to describe some southern states’ Democrats but I think that’s fading. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959/20 "2011-08-09T12:39:55Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > Given the recent addition of the Tea Party to the American spectrum, I must say I’m surprised (as someone who watches from afar), that they have not broken away from the GOP, with the Republicans repositioning themselves as a centrist party. Seems to me that whatever losses they would suffer would be mitigated by the fact that they would be the kingmaker in the congress and senate between the Democracts and the Tea Party. > [@guestchaz](#): > > They haven’t broken away because as I understand it the Tea Party doesn’t consider itself to be a political party nor do they have any plans to become one, that I am aware of. they consider themselves to be a conservative political activist group (or what ever the correct wording is) Also, the Republicans have long since become dependent on the extremists and bigots and fundamentalists, driving more moderate people away. If they split from the extremists they wouldn’t have enough people left to matter much. And the _Democrats_ are a moderate right wing party; there’s just not much room left anymore between the Democrats and the crazies to fit in a not-crazy Republican party. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-not-a-legitimate-alternative-to-the-democrats-and-republicans/591959.md?page=2)