# Why is there still a Slytherin House? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179 "2004-11-29T17:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/1 "2004-11-29T17:59:19Z")
I understand that Salazar Slytherin was one of the founders and all, but really, do we need to have a house that churns out dark wizard after dark wizard? I suppose there’s the “keeping your enemies closer” and all that, but you’d think after the past 15-20 years of trouble they’ve had, they’d just do away with it. And another thing. In _Chamber of Secrets_, when the message on the wall is found after Mr. Filch’s cat is petrified, Draco yells out “You’re next, Mudbloods”, or something to that effect. Given that the word “mudblood” is a racial slur, and from what I gather, akin to the words such as “nigger” or “spic”, don’t you think Draco would be subjected to some kind of reprimand? You’d think the wizarding world would at least be on par with the Muggle world on that score. In the sense that yes, racism does exist (sadly), but children aren’t really allowed to go about yelling it at each other. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Andros\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Andros\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andros_X)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/2 "2004-11-29T18:14:10Z")
Because the students in Slytherin are not dark wizards yet, and the good wizards don’t go around destroying groups because they disagree with them. Besides, they’d just go to other houses and wreak havoc there. Better to keep them in one place where one head of house can control them. As for Draco: AFAICT, disciplinary actions outside of class fall to the head of house of the offender. Since Snape is sympathetic to Draco’s unenlightened position, he chose to be lenient. If Draco used the “M-word” in McGonagall’s class, however, it would likely be a bit different. Out of curiosity, shouldn’t this be in Cafe Society? ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/3 "2004-11-29T18:14:16Z")
And this should have been in **Cafe Society**. Mods, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/4 "2004-11-29T18:44:49Z")
Just because Slytherin has turned out more dark wizards than any other house doesn’t mean that all Slytherins will turn out to be dark wizards. When the Sorting Hat sorts, it identifies the overriding qualities of a student’s personality - Slytherins are ambitious, Gryffindors brave, Hufflepuffs dedicated, Ravenclaws intelligent. This doesn’t mean a Hufflepuff can’t also be ambitious, just that ambition takes a back seat to persistence in that case. I am puzzled, though, as to why Snape continues to fawn over Malfoy and let him get away with stuff. House loyalty, yeah, but we’re given the idea that Snape is really on the side of good. Maybe he sees something redeemable in Draco (as Dumbledore obviously did in Snape himself) and he’s nurturing that in his own weird way. Or, possibly, his “assignment” in the OOP is to keep Malfoy under close watch as part of that “keep your enemies closer” philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/5 "2004-11-29T19:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > And this should have been in **Cafe Society**. Mods, my apologies. No problem. **Cajun Man** for the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/6 "2004-11-29T19:50:27Z")
Since we’re on the subject . . . If Hogwarts rules state you can have a toad, a cat or an owl how does Ron get away with keeping a rat? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/7 "2004-11-29T20:02:18Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > Since we’re on the subject . . . > > If Hogwarts rules state you can have a toad, a cat or an owl how does Ron get away with keeping a rat? Perhaps an exception was made knowing the Weasley’s financial status. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/8 "2004-11-29T20:09:06Z")
I think that the rule is actually that each student is allowed a familiar, and toad, cat, and owl are just the standard familiars. You’d probably be called onto the carpet if you tried to keep a dragon as a familiar (not, of course, that anyone affiliated with Hogwarts would try that! ;)), but nobody’s going to complain about a rat. Well, maybe Draco would complain, but it’d be McGonagal’s call on what to do about it, and she of course would consider it perfectly acceptable. And I think that the OP has cause and effect reversed. We don’t have wizards going dark because of Slytherin house. Rather, the wizards who are in Slytherin are there because they already had some inclination towards the Dark. Not, of course, that they all follow that inclination, but it’s there. So if you eliminated Slytherin house, you’d still have those wizards out there, but they’d be going to Durmstrang, or homeschooled, or self-taught, which could potentially be even more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/9 "2004-11-29T20:13:16Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > I am puzzled, though, as to why Snape continues to fawn over Malfoy and let him get away with stuff. House loyalty, yeah, but we’re given the idea that Snape is really on the side of good. Maybe he sees something redeemable in Draco (as Dumbledore obviously did in Snape himself) and he’s nurturing that in his own weird way. Or, possibly, his “assignment” in the OOP is to keep Malfoy under close watch as part of that “keep your enemies closer” philosophy. IIRC, we don’t know how widely known Snape’s defection from the Death Eaters is. He may have appearances to maintain. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/10 "2004-11-29T20:18:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rather, the wizards who are in Slytherin are there because they already had some inclination towards the Dark. Not, of course, that they all follow that inclination, but it’s there. No, I think you’ve got it wrong here, too. Ambition is the key, and ambition in and of itself is not a negative quality. It’s Harry’s ambition - his desire to do something great, to prove himself - that almost gets him sorted into Slytherin, just as Hermione’s smarts almost sent her to Ravenclaw but with both, their inherent bravery was the overriding factor. Ambition can be more easily twisted into “darkness” than bravery, dedication or basic intellect is all. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/11 "2004-11-29T20:29:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I think that the OP has cause and effect reversed. We don’t have wizards going dark because of Slytherin house. Rather, the wizards who are in Slytherin are there because they already had some inclination towards the Dark. Not, of course, that they all follow that inclination, but it’s there. So if you eliminated Slytherin house, you’d still have those wizards out there, but they’d be going to Durmstrang, or homeschooled, or self-taught, which could potentially be even more dangerous. I have to disagree. I think it’s a bad idea to have these people all together in one house, instead of spread out amongst the other houses, where other potential talents and traits can be brought about in a more positive environment. You could have young people who are potentially ambitious, but not necessarily evil, corrupted by influences in Slytherin house. This is not to say that dark wizards don’t come from other houses, or would cease to exist if Slytherin were closed, but it might eliminate the kind of “recruitment” you might expect in such a closed environment. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/12 "2004-11-29T20:36:40Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > No, I think you’ve got it wrong here, too. Ambition is the key, and ambition in and of itself is not a negative quality. It’s Harry’s ambition - his desire to do something great, to prove himself - that almost gets him sorted into Slytherin, just as Hermione’s smarts almost sent her to Ravenclaw but with both, their inherent bravery was the overriding factor. Ambition can be more easily twisted into “darkness” than bravery, dedication or basic intellect is all. Slightly off-topic, but I’ve always been under the impression that Harry’s inherent bravery was the _secondary_ motivation to put him in Gryffindor. The main reason Harry wasn’t Sorted into Slytherin was because he _asked_ not to be. The Hat hadn’t said anything about putting him in Slytherin until Harry specifically requested anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/13 "2004-11-29T20:40:53Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > I am puzzled, though, as to why Snape continues to fawn over Malfoy and let him get away with stuff. House loyalty, yeah, but we’re given the idea that Snape is really on the side of good. Maybe he sees something redeemable in Draco (as Dumbledore obviously did in Snape himself) and he’s nurturing that in his own weird way. Or, possibly, his “assignment” in the OOP is to keep Malfoy under close watch as part of that “keep your enemies closer” philosophy. Who says he’s sincere? Yes, Snape is on Dumbledore’s side, but remember, the Order is a secret society. He can’t give himself away. How else would he be able to spy for the Order, and keep tabs on Lucius Malfoy and co? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/14 "2004-11-29T20:44:47Z")
According to HP 5, Slytherin house was originally started because Salazar himself preferred Pure Bloods. Which is, come to think of it, probably much better than Gryffindor’s idea of only accepting students who had done something important and specia, which would have limited the students to pitifully small numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/15 "2004-11-29T20:52:10Z")
I’ll agree with those who say that not all Slytherins are bad, that ambition is not necessarily evil, and I’ll add that it’s handy to keep all your potential dark wizards where you can keep an eye on them. Anyway, a major theme of this series is free will. If being sorted into a house by a talking hat determined your future decisions, that’s hardly free will. Plus there’s always talk among the fans that there’ll be a “good Slytherin” one of these days – either Draco will be redeemed, or some Slytherin we haven’t seen yet will turn out to be on the Order’s side. Since Rowling has said that Blaise Zabini will be upgraded from a running joke to an actual character, maybe it’ll be him. As for Snape, I think Sirius’ comment in _Order of the Phoenix_ that dark wizards aren’t necessarily in cahoots (he was talking about Umbridge and Voldemort) is probably a clue to Snape’s character. I don’t think he’s helping Dumbledore out of the goodness of his heart, but he probably has his own reasons for wanting to get rid of Voldemort. Maybe it comes down to eliminating the competition? ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/16 "2004-11-29T20:58:10Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > According to HP 5, Slytherin house was originally started because Salazar himself preferred Pure Bloods. Which is, come to think of it, probably much better than Gryffindor’s idea of only accepting students who had done something important and specia, which would have limited the students to pitifully small numbers. Doesn’t matter if the house is smaller or large. Hufflepuff was going to take the rest anyway, so nobody got left out. Either way, it doesn’t matter. The Sorting Hat obviously doesn’t care what the founders wanted. It’s let in at least one Half Blood into Slytherin (Tom Riddle) and almost let in a second (Harry). Peter was probably in Gryffindor, and wasn’t exactly brave or chivalrous – same could be said of Percy Weasley. And in its songs, it keeps changing its descriptions of the Houses – Gryffindor went from bravery and chivalrous to just bravery. Hufflepuff went from hard working to miscellaneous. And Slytherin went from cunning to just ambitious. It’s probably just going by the choices of the wearer. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/17 "2004-11-29T22:32:02Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Just because Slytherin has turned out more dark wizards than any other house doesn’t mean that all Slytherins will turn out to be dark wizards. When the Sorting Hat sorts, it identifies the overriding qualities of a student’s personality - Slytherins are ambitious, Gryffindors brave, Hufflepuffs dedicated, Ravenclaws intelligent. This doesn’t mean a Hufflepuff can’t also be ambitious, just that ambition takes a back seat to persistence in that case. > > I am puzzled, though, as to why Snape continues to fawn over Malfoy and let him get away with stuff. House loyalty, yeah, but we’re given the idea that Snape is really on the side of good. Maybe he sees something redeemable in Draco (as Dumbledore obviously did in Snape himself) and he’s nurturing that in his own weird way. Or, possibly, his “assignment” in the OOP is to keep Malfoy under close watch as part of that “keep your enemies closer” philosophy. Shhh! That secret’s in the next novel! ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/18 "2004-11-30T01:37:56Z")
I dunno, **Hamish**. Bravery is always a fiddly little trait to pin down. Maybe Peter was brave at one time but exposure to Voldemort broke his will. Maybe Percy has yet to be put in a situation where bravery is truly necessary. There are still a few too many question marks. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/19 "2004-11-30T04:30:04Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > Either way, it doesn’t matter. The Sorting Hat obviously doesn’t care what the founders wanted. It’s let in at least one Half Blood into Slytherin (Tom Riddle) and almost let in a second (Harry). Both Harry’s parents were wizards. I guess he could be a QUARTER blood… ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-still-a-slytherin-house/277179/20 "2004-11-30T12:12:51Z")
I always figured that people put into Slytherin are people for whom blood matters- lineage, keeping to your social class, etc… Of course, people are ambitious and want to rise to a higher station, but have to do it in acceptable fashion.