# Why is there the "wh" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609 "2005-03-02T17:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/1 "2005-03-02T17:02:52Z")
I remember in grade school one of my teachers drilling us on the proper pronounciation of words starting with “wh” (whale, what, whether). She’d have us practice pronouncing with our hand in front of our mouth; we were supposed to feel our breath when we’d pronounced it correctly. Thing is, I always thought it sounded the same: what/watt, weather/whether, where/ware (sp). So, is there _really_ supposed to be a difference in how “wh” and “w” are pronounced? (And don’t get me started on “who”, where you can’t even hear a “w” sound!) ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/2 "2005-03-02T17:11:22Z")
The aspirated “w” sound is a regional thing–some American dialects have it and some American dialects don’t. I’ve lived in Kansas and Indiana and quite frankly, the only people I’ve ever encountered who actually used this phoneme were the more irritating of my elementary school teachers–maybe they’re told that “proper” people use it, or something. The difference between “w” and “wh” does not exist in my dialect, or those of any of my family, friends, or colleagues. As far as the what/watt distinction, I use a schwa in “what” and the frog in “watt.” ---
**Author:** ![olpeculiar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@olpeculiar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/olpeculiar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/3 "2005-03-02T17:24:31Z")
WAG here, but I think the aspirated “W” sound is essentially obsolete in English. It probably used to serve a useful purpose in English’s early days, but the two different “W” sounds don’t seem to serve much purpose now. This is very different from some other languages. Others, such as Tibetan, have several aspirated and non-aspirated consonants, which serve as entirely different letter of the alphabet. The subtle differences in pronunciation will change the word you are attempting to say, and thus the intended meaning of your message - tricky business. Tibetan actually has aspirated and a non-aspirated labial consonants, like “B” and “P”. As you can imagine, the difference between a “Bu” sound and a “Buh” sound can be tricky indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/4 "2005-03-02T17:27:10Z")
> [@olpeculiar](#): > > WAG here, but I think the aspirated “W” sound is essentially obsolete in English. **I** hear/say a difference. “Which witch?” Different sounds! ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/5 "2005-03-02T17:45:57Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > **I** hear/say a difference. “Which witch?” Different sounds! Some English speakers still maintain the distinction. **Olpeculiar** is largely correct, though – the distinction is essentially _functionally_ obsolete. It’s no longer necessary to convey meaning. **Olpeculiar** , the arpirated [w] in older forms of English is related to the “qu-” in Latin. Both are traceable back to Proto-Indo-European “\*kw-”. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/6 "2005-03-02T17:46:45Z")
> [@olpeculiar](#): > > WAG here, but I think the aspirated “W” sound is essentially obsolete in English. It probably used to serve a useful purpose in English’s early days, but the two different “W” sounds don’t seem to serve much purpose now. That makes about as much sense to me as saying that there’s very little difference between a “T” sound and a “D” sound, so they’re essentially obsolete, and the two different sounds don’t seem to serve much purpose. Although I could understand someone who used only one sound or the other, the two different sounds make it easier to understand what someone is saying. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/7 "2005-03-02T18:16:02Z")
There is a definite wh/w distinction in Southern dialects. Just a data point for you. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/8 "2005-03-02T18:40:41Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > There is a definite wh/w distinction in Southern dialects. > > Just a data point for you. Gre up in New Orleans, now live in Mississippi. Neither place makes the wh/w distinction. I don’t think any one region in the U.S., as whole, makes this distinction. ISTM that it falls more along generational and familial lines. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/9 "2005-03-02T18:51:14Z")
Linguists usually write the “wh” sound as “hw” or as a turned w. “Hw” makes more sense to me than “wh” because it’s closer to the way the sound is actually made. I would hesitate to call it an “aspirated” sound. True phonemic aspiration, as in most Indo-Aryan languages, occurs simultaneously with the main articulated sound, whereas in this case, the “h” comes noticeably before the “w.” (I say “phonemic aspiration,” because aspirated and non-aspirated versions of sounds exist in English as morphemes (listen carefully to the difference in the Ts in “take” and “cat”), but they are generally not detected by speakers.) That stuff about I also understand that Scottish accents faithfully preserve the difference between the two phonemes. While it has died out in most modern American accents, I would hesitate to say that it is obsolete. > [@Sattua](#): > > The aspirated “w” sound is a regional thing–some American dialects have it and some American dialects don’t. I’ve lived in Kansas and Indiana and quite frankly, the only people I’ve ever encountered who actually used this phoneme were the more irritating of my elementary school teachers–maybe they’re told that “proper” people use it, or something. The difference between “w” and “wh” does not exist in my dialect, or those of any of my family, friends, or colleagues. > > As far as the what/watt distinction, I use a schwa in “what” and the frog in “watt.” ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/10 "2005-03-02T18:54:57Z")
When I was doing Philly Story last year, my dialogue coach told me that aspirating my "wh"s would make me sound more pre-WWII Northeastern “Old Money”. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/11 "2005-03-02T19:05:03Z")
This just goes to show what happens when you don’t get out much. I literally had \*no idea \* that the “wh” was obsolete. Everyone I come into contact with says “what”, not “wat”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/12 "2005-03-02T19:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Tibetan actually has aspirated and a non-aspirated labial consonants, like “B” and “P”. As you can imagine, the difference between a “Bu” sound and a “Buh” sound can be tricky indeed. As I understand it, classical Greek also had an aspirated “P”. The Greek letter that looks like a circle with a vertical line through it is transcribed “phi”, rather than “fi”, because it was originally pronounced as an aspirated “pi”, not with the f sound now associated with ph. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/13 "2005-03-02T19:06:38Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Gre up in New Orleans, now live in Mississippi. Neither place makes the wh/w distinction. > > I don’t think any one region in the U.S., as whole, makes this distinction. ISTM that it falls more along generational and familial lines. I suppose that could be so. For some reason (or maybe no reason) I associate the failure to make the w/wh distinction with midwestern and west coast dialects. (The same dialects that make no discernable distinction between “wok” and “walk,” to cite a similar example.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/14 "2005-03-02T19:10:58Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I suppose that could be so. > > For some reason (or maybe no reason) I associate the failure to make the w/wh distinction with midwestern and west coast dialects. (The same dialects that make no discernable distinction between “wok” and “walk,” to cite a similar example.) In other words the – caught is cot merry is marry is Mary horse is hoarse – dialects ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/15 "2005-03-02T19:11:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This just goes to show what happens when you don’t get out much. I literally had \*no idea \* that the “wh” was obsolete. Everyone I come into contact with says “what”, not “wat”. Even teenagers? Catch some prime-time television. Do you hear the w/wh distinction on those shows? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/16 "2005-03-02T19:17:37Z")
**Contrapuntal** , I assumed you were American. If not, then listen to the dialects on television won’t help much (unless you can receive some American shows). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/17 "2005-03-02T19:24:39Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Even teenagers? > > Catch some prime-time television. Do you hear the w/wh distinction on those shows? I rarely speak to teenagers. And, at the risk of being trampled by the True Believers, I must reveal that I even more rarely watch TV. I am American, however. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/18 "2005-03-02T19:32:21Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > In other words the – > > caught is cot > merry is marry is Mary > horse is hoarse > > – dialects There are people that pronounce those all differently? I’ve never heard that. And I’m from Pennsylvania, not the Midwest or California. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/19 "2005-03-02T19:39:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There are people that pronounce those all differently? I’ve never heard that. And I’m from Pennsylvania, not the Midwest or California. I’m from Michigan. merry is marry is Mary horse is hoarse I proununce these identically. caught is cot I pronounce those different. Caught rhyming with ought, and cot with not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609/20 "2005-03-02T19:39:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There are people that pronounce those all differently? I’ve never heard that. And I’m from Pennsylvania, not the Midwest or California. The Pennsylvania dialects, especially those in western Pennsylvania, are closely related to the Midwestern and California dialects. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-there-the-wh/292609.md?page=2)