# Why Is This a Personal Attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619 "2010-08-18T15:13:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/21 "2010-08-19T13:46:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, I was scrolling through the thread and kept seeing the word “stupid” appear in the text and issued a general comment. > > It has only been since Shodan made a big deal of opening this thread that I realized that Shodan was the only one who was trying to skirt the rules while employing that word. My bad. Next time, I suppose I could just Warn him instead of presuming that it was a general donnybrook. Exhibit A as to why people hate mods. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/22 "2010-08-19T18:48:30Z")
**tomndebb** said: > [@](#): > > It has only been since Shodan made a big deal of opening this thread that I realized that Shodan was the only one who was trying to skirt the rules while employing that word. My bad. Next time, I suppose I could just Warn him instead of presuming that it was a general donnybrook. Actually, if anyone deserves a warning for the use of “stupid” it is **Czarcasm**. **Shodan** described the _post_ as “Too stupid; didn’t read” just like people describe posts as “Too long, didn’t read” or “TLDR”. **Czarcasm** is the one who turned that into a witty but personally insulting retort. And no, I didn’t report that post, because it didn’t come up until now. So far I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, both because I’ve seen posters making unfounded accusations before and because **Shodan** seems to be reading in bias. But comments like that lend credence to his position. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/23 "2010-08-19T19:05:47Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **tomndebb** said: > > > [@](#): > > > > It has only been since Shodan made a big deal of opening this thread that I realized that Shodan was the only one who was trying to skirt the rules while employing that word. My bad. Next time, I suppose I could just Warn him instead of presuming that it was a general donnybrook. > > Actually, if anyone deserves a warning for the use of “stupid” it is **Czarcasm**. **Shodan** described the _post_ as “Too stupid; didn’t read” just like people describe posts as “Too long, didn’t read” or “TLDR”. **Czarcasm** is the one who turned that into a witty but personally insulting retort. I plead guilty on the charge of being witty,and Nolo contendere on the personal insult charge. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/24 "2010-08-19T19:28:50Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Exhibit A as to why people hate mods. To be clear, I do not hate the mods, not even **tomndebb**. I would really appreciate it if no one gave the mods a reason to ignore this thread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/25 "2010-08-19T19:30:25Z")
IMO, none of these are personal attacks, really. They’re all attacks on arguments. Not necessarily \*good \*attacks or \*reasoned \*attacks or even \*productive \*attacks, but there’s nothing in there about the _posters_. Which, unless I’m mistaken, is the rule. And I also think there’s a big distinction between “your post is a lie” (i.e., you are lying) and “your post demonstrates a belief that is based on lies” (i.e., someone lied to you and you believed them). The way I understand the rules, the first would be disallowed but the latter should be fine. I don’t care for \*\*Shodan \*\*a lot of the time, but fair’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/26 "2010-08-19T19:53:27Z")
I’m not reading the whole kit and kaboodle, but the phrase “get back to us when you understand the issues” would be a personal attack in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/27 "2010-08-19T19:59:57Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I’m not reading the whole kit and kaboodle, but the phrase “get back to us when you understand the issues” would be a personal attack in my book. Could you return it to the library? It’s been updated since then. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/28 "2010-08-19T20:02:02Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I’m not reading the whole kit and kaboodle, but the phrase “get back to us when you understand the issues” would be a personal attack in my book. How about “You don’t seem to understand the issues?” Or “You should really do some research to make sure you understand the issues?” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/29 "2010-08-19T20:48:00Z")
What about **Czarcasm** then, **Dex**? He’s admitted personal insults. Are the mods and admins going to allow him to get away with that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/30 "2010-08-19T20:51:36Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What about **Czarcasm** then, **Dex**? He’s admitted personal insults. Are the mods and admins going to allow him to get away with that? You mean the iffy one I immediately apologized for? _ **GUILTY!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/31 "2010-08-19T21:06:13Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I’m not reading the whole kit and kaboodle, but the phrase “get back to us when you understand the issues” would be a personal attack in my book. Well, what if someone’s positions really \*do \*demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the underlying issues? It’s _snarky_, certainly, but a certain amount of snark has always been tolerated here. I guess the difference to me is what can be argued. “ur a dumb” isn’t going to get you anywhere; what’s the possible response, “No I’m not?” But if someone asserts that you don’t understand the issues, that’s not name-calling, it’s saying your positions don’t have a solid footing in reality; and \*that’s \*something that you can potentially disprove. (And if you \*can’t \*disprove it, then the person’s right, and they may as well get to call a spade a spade.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/32 "2010-08-19T21:41:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > > What about **Czarcasm** then, **Dex**? He’s admitted personal insults. Are the mods and admins going to allow him to get away with that? > > You mean the iffy one I immediately apologized for? > > _ **GUILTY!** _ Your words were: \*I plead guilty on the charge of being witty,and Nolo contendere on the personal insult charge. \* You’ve admitted the personal insult. There’s nothing iffy about it. And do you really think that counts as an apology? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/33 "2010-08-19T21:44:18Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > You mean the iffy one I immediately apologized for? > > > > _ **GUILTY!** _ > > Your words were: > > \*I plead guilty on the charge of being witty,and Nolo contendere on the personal insult charge. \* > > You’ve admitted the personal insult. There’s nothing iffy about it. And do you really think that counts as an apology? Please see post #191 of the thread in question. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/34 "2010-08-19T22:20:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please see post #191 of the thread in question. The text of post #191 from that thread: \* You know what I believe, and what my beliefs are based on? That certainly qualifies you to apply for [Randi’s challenge]. Edited to add: Sorry boss, didn’t see the warning. \* So, you apologized to the Moderator, not to the person you insulted. The apology was for not following instructions, rather than apologizing for the insult. And you cite this in response to a comment about an entirely different insult. You asked: “You mean the iffy one I immediately apologized for?” The answer to that is, no the other one that you pleaded Nolo contendere, and for which you did not offer any apology. And please shut up about Randi. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/35 "2010-08-19T23:52:47Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Please see post #191 of the thread in question. > > The text of post #191 from that thread: > \* > You know what I believe, and what my beliefs are based on? > That certainly qualifies you to apply for [Randi’s challenge]. > Edited to add: Sorry boss, didn’t see the warning. \* > > So, you apologized to the Moderator, not to the person you insulted. The apology was for not following instructions, rather than apologizing for the insult. And you cite this in response to a comment about an entirely different insult. > > You asked: “You mean the iffy one I immediately apologized for?” The answer to that is, no the other one that you pleaded Nolo contendere, and for which you did not offer any apology. > > And please shut up about Randi. I owe _you_ nothing, and if you have a problem with my mentioning the MDC to somebody else, then you indeed have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/36 "2010-08-20T01:15:15Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Actually, if anyone deserves a warning for the use of “stupid” it is **Czarcasm**. **Shodan** described the _post_ as “Too stupid; didn’t read” just like people describe posts as “Too long, didn’t read” or “TLDR”. **Czarcasm** is the one who turned that into a witty but personally insulting retort. And Shodan was not threatened with a Warning for the use of “stupid.” He was told to stop the personal attacks. Telling another poster that his “beliefs” are “based on lies” when that poster has not even expressed any beliefs in the thread is a personal attack. Posted just following a Mod note to reduce the name-calling, (even if the name-calling note was too specific), is a red flag. > [@Irishman](#): > > So far I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, both because I’ve seen posters making unfounded accusations before and because **Shodan** seems to be reading in bias. But comments like that lend credence to his position. Shodan always reads in bias. After multiple years of being his target, it gets a bit wearying. When I scanned the thread and found excessive hostility, I told everyone to tone it down, using the word that popped up most often as an attack. I just found it ironic that Shodan’s evidence for bias was the fact that he was the only one who had used that word, when I had not even noticed that connection, so when he made it a centerpiece of this thread, I committed the cardinal sin an SDMB Mod can commit and made a smart-assed remark. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/37 "2010-08-20T01:40:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I owe _you_ nothing, I never said you did. What are you talking about? > [@](#): > > and if you have a problem with my mentioning the MDC to somebody else, then you indeed have a problem. The MDC is your answer to everything. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/38 "2010-08-20T13:18:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > And Shodan was not threatened with a Warning for the use of “stupid.” Because I immediately complied with the (rdiculous and arbitrary) rule that you imposed. > [@](#): > > He was told to stop the personal attacks. Which brings us back to the question in the OP - why was I told to stop personal attacks when several other posters made personal attacks on me? Why are you ignoring those? > [@](#): > > > [@Irishman](#): > > > > So far I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, both because I’ve seen posters making unfounded accusations before and because **Shodan** seems to be reading in bias. But comments like that lend credence to his position. > > Shodan always reads in bias. After multiple years of being his target, it gets a bit wearying. I think we have gone a good long way in establishing that, in this case at the very least, I am not reading in the bias. Others can see it. Can you? > [@](#): > > I committed the cardinal sin an SDMB Mod can commit and made a smart-assed remark. Please do not try and change the subject. No one is objecting to your smart-assed remark. I and others are objecting to the fact that you are ignoring personal attacks made against posters you dislike and concentrating all of your mod attention on reasons to act against me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/39 "2010-08-20T14:23:06Z")
He’s got a point. You didn’t say “The next person to make a person attack will get a Warning.” You said, “Shodan, the next personal attack will receive a Warning.” If your intent was to raise the general level of discourse in the thread, that was not remotely clear. The Note appeared to be directed at one poster and one poster only. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619/40 "2010-08-20T15:03:56Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Squink](#): > > > > It’s an invisible and moving line you crossed, **Shodan**. > > Sometimes it can slide right under you while you’re not looking. And if it slides under you while you’re sitting, you get a cheap thrill. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-a-personal-attack/550619.md?page=3)