# Why is this considered "plagarism"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185 "2004-10-26T03:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/1 "2004-10-26T03:28:57Z")
One of the definitions of Plagarism is the use of one paper in more than one class that semester. Are they saying you can plagarise ‘yourself’?! :eek: This quandry came up by a classmate who had two classes which he was assigned to do a critique on a play he watched. It seems rather redundant to have to write two separate papers for what is essentially the same assignment. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/2 "2004-10-26T03:33:53Z")
That’s certainly not plagiarism, though it is lazy. It could be considered a form of cheating, especially if each teacher expected a 100% original paper. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/3 "2004-10-26T03:34:25Z")
According to MW, to plagiarize is > [@](#): > > transitive senses : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one’s own : use (another’s production) without crediting the source > intransitive senses : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source What your friend did doesn’t fit the bill for plagirizing. Alot of classes either have you sign a paper describing what plagiarism is, or at least include it as a topic in the syllabus. Have your friend go over that, and if nothing like this is mentioned, go to the teachers. Do they actually know that he wrote the paper, or do they think two seperate people turned in the same paper? ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/4 "2004-10-26T03:36:02Z")
That might be the way one particular instructor defined plagiarism, but it really isn’t, as you correctly noted. Some instructors actually encourage adapting the same paper for different assignments, with the reasoning that perhaps the student will focus on writing one good paper instead of hurrying through two bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/5 "2004-10-26T03:42:30Z")
Of course if the insturctor owned the rights to the first paper, and then you turned another paper for the other class that had the same feel to it… My Play Critique…By John Fogerty ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/6 "2004-10-26T07:44:31Z")
I once recieved a failing grade on a paper for plaigarism because I didn’t cite the source of the location of the Field Museum in Chicago. I don’t think that teacher liked me. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/7 "2004-10-26T11:26:43Z")
I don’t think that would have qualified as plagiarism when I was at college. That would have fallen under “dual submission,” for which you needed to inform the professor beforehand and get permission (which, from what I gathered, you weren’t very likely to get; the profs preferred an original piece of work based on what had been learned in and through the class). ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/8 "2004-10-26T11:35:13Z")
IIRC, the MLA agrees that this is “self-plaigiarism.” It qualifies that by saying that it is permissible as long as you have the permission of both teachers. If you have been assigned two papers, and you write one paper, then you have not completed the assignment. When this comes up in my classes, I just ask the student which class he or she would like to get credit for the paper in- 'cause they’re not getting credit for two papers when they’ve only written one. ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/9 "2004-10-26T11:36:18Z")
> [@xgxlx](#): > > > [@MW](#): > > > > …present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source… > > What your friend did doesn’t fit the bill for plagirizing… If the second teacher receiving the paper thinks he is receiving something new and original, then I can see how handing in a “used” paper can be defined as plagarism under the above definition. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/10 "2004-10-26T12:48:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > That’s certainly not plagiarism, though it is lazy. It could be considered a form of cheating, especially if each teacher expected a 100% original paper. In the business world it would more likely be considered “efficient”. In the academic world it is not always that they want your thoughts as much as your effort. In Florida they had a rule that you had to write X amount during your collegiate career. I found this somewhat ignorant, since it encouraged volume of writing over concision of thought and expression. Once I was graduated and working I went to work for a place where we required to distill our memos down to one page. If you couldn’t say it in a page then you weren’t doing your job properly (you could have attachments as required). I also recall a quote, probably by a comedian, that to copy from one source is plagiarism; to copy from many sources is research. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/11 "2004-10-26T12:49:21Z")
Maybe not plagiarism per se, but certainly against the rules of my school, at least. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/12 "2004-10-26T12:59:23Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > In the business world it would more likely be considered “efficient”. In the academic world it is not always that they want your thoughts as much as your effort. But, oddly enough, the purpose of the academic world is to “learn,” and the more you write, the more you do learn. If your friend were smart, he’s write two papers, each concentrating on two different aspects of the play, with the aspects chosen depending on the concentration of the two classes. That way, he’ll learn more. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/13 "2004-10-26T13:15:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > But, oddly enough, the purpose of the academic world is to “learn,” and the more you write, the more you do learn. Many years ago, I received an A- on a paper I wrote on a short story. The “minus” was because the paper was not the full five pages required. It was only four and a half. IIRC the short story was shorter than the paper. When I had finished the paper I realised it was a bit short but there was really nothing more to add. Even the teacher acknowledged this, but she was bound by department rules to mark off since it didn’t meet the length requirement. It would seem that being succinct is not encouraged by this practice. I would not have learned anything more by adding another half page. One can put “more” into a paper without lengthening it. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/14 "2004-10-26T13:44:35Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Many years ago, I received an A- on a paper I wrote on a short story. The “minus” was because the paper was not the full five pages required. It was only four and a half. IIRC the short story was shorter than the paper. When I had finished the paper I realised it was a bit short but there was really nothing more to add. Even the teacher acknowledged this, but she was bound by department rules to mark off since it didn’t meet the length requirement. It would seem that being succinct is not encouraged by this practice. I would not have learned anything more by adding another half page. > > One can put “more” into a paper without lengthening it. The simple answer, of course, would have been to tweak the font and margin parameters to make a 5 page paper that doesn’t look too spread out. If its a _page_ requirement and not a word count requirement, you can’t be faulted for a lack of creativity, since you already wrote everything worth saying in the 4 1/2 pages- the extra space is a mere ‘formality’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/15 "2004-10-26T18:47:04Z")
In 24 years of marriage this has been a continuing sore sport between Mrs. Kunilou (the lifetime teacher with two graduate degrees) and me. Back in college I took what had been a damn fine paper in high school and updated it for use in four different classes. While each version had somewhat different information it, it’s true that I re-used large chunks of the original paper pretty much verbatim. Her viewpoint was, and continues to be, that each class requires original research and writing done specifically for that work. My viewpoint was, and continues to be, that if I already had the research done, and a pretty good idea of how to present it, and it was my own work, then so be it. I would point out that, if you’re actually a student and not having a theoretical discussion, Mrs. Kunilou’s opinion matters a lot more than mine. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/16 "2004-10-26T19:07:38Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > The simple answer, of course, would have been to tweak the font and margin parameters to make a 5 page paper that doesn’t look too spread out. If its a _page_ requirement and not a word count requirement, you can’t be faulted for a lack of creativity, since you already wrote everything worth saying in the 4 1/2 pages- the extra space is a mere ‘formality’ 😉 The simple problem is that in 1980 the PC had not yet debutted. I think the paper was done on a typewriter, so just tweaking fonts was not that easy. And I’m fairly sure that spacing was preassigned. ---
**Author:** ![alphaFemale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecb155/32.png) [@alphaFemale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaFemale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/17 "2004-10-26T21:12:23Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > That way, he’ll learn more. **Reality _Check_** , perhaps? > [@ShibbOleth](#): > > In the business world it would more likely be considered “efficient”. i will never get over the disconnect between school and business. Uni is supposed to be prepping you for business, right? But the paper signifying graduation from Uni only gets you in the door. The skills you acquire finagling your way through Uni is what keeps you there. This is probably why I never finished my degree. Although, I was persuing a degree in a purely academic discipline, so I’m not sure I have room to talk. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/18 "2004-10-26T21:34:50Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > One of the definitions of Plagarism is the use of one paper in more than one class that semester. Are they saying you can plagarise ‘yourself’?! :eek: Hell, [John Fogarty was once _sued_ for plagarizing himself](http://www.wizardnews.com/story.200409231.html). ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/19 "2004-10-26T21:46:11Z")
> [@alphaFemale](#): > > Uni is supposed to be prepping you for business, right? I’ve always been told (by my rediculously over educated, academic family members) that the purpose of a university is research. That a few students wind up learning something is purely a by-product. In any case - handing in one paper for two classes is against the rules at my University, and it falls under the heading of plagerism. From the calander: > [@](#): > > 1. Plagiarism - Essentially plagiarism involves submitting or presenting work in a course as if it were the student’s own work done expressly for that particular course when, in fact, it is not. Most commonly plagiarism exists when: > (a) the work submitted or presented was done, in whole or in part, by an individual other than the one submitting or presenting the work (this includes having another impersonate the student or otherwise substituting the work of another for one’s own in an examination or test), > (b) parts of the work are taken from another source without reference to the original author, > (c) the whole work (e.g., an essay) is copied from another source, and/or, > _(d) a student submits or presents work in one course which has also been submitted in another course (although it may be completely original with that student) without the knowledge of or prior agreement of the instructor involved._ > While it is recognized that scholarly work often involves reference to the ideas, data and conclusions of other scholars, intellectual honesty requires that such references be explicitly and clearly noted. Plagiarism is an extremely serious academic offence. > It is recognized that clause (d) does not prevent a graduate student incorporating work previously done by him or her in a thesis or dissertation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185/20 "2004-10-26T22:16:28Z")
> [@alphaFemale](#): > > Uni is supposed to be prepping you for business, right? Um, no. (Unless you’re taking an MBA) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-considered-plagarism/271185.md?page=2)