# Why is this election so close? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 26, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930 "2012-10-26T13:50:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/121 "2012-10-29T15:32:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > This is the crux of the matter. I disagree that race is the reason for these differences. I see. That’s probably the topic of another thread, but I think if you look a little further into how culture and society work, you’ll see that it’s less a matter of millions of people spontaneously making poor individual choices, and more of a matter of poor choices that result from a subculture stressed by poverty and limited opportunity. The fact that many individuals can buck the trend doesn’t negate the argument that doing so is difficult. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/122 "2012-10-29T17:08:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So what you’re saying is that, everything else being equal, being black makes life easier in the US? White guys just can’t catch a break. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/123 "2012-10-29T17:10:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You are unhinged here. You said change his race. So that’s all I responded to. You didn’t add anything about his socioeconomic background so I took the logical step of assuming it would be unchanged. If you want to suggest some sort of hypothetical where he was born in a gutter then we can discuss it. I said “If Romney were black.” I assumed that you knew that blackness is a cultural construct, not a biological one, and that I’m not asking you about, for example, his risk of skin cancer or sickle cell anemia. I assumed that you knew I wasn’t suggesting I target him with my magic Race Changer ray-gun. Instead I was asking you about what you think would happen if he were born the US in 1947 as a black child instead of as a white child. Obviously he couldn’t have been born to a political family, or a Mormon family. The chances that he would have been born to a wealthy, well-connected family would be vanishingly small. I’m talking about the whole shebang. Are you seriously suggesting that undergoing the cultural experiences of blackness in the US, especially that being born in Detroit as a black child in the middle of the twentieth century, leads to a life more amenable to becoming president than Romney’s life of being born to a wealthy, politically connected white family? In case you’re not clear: I’m suggesting that it’d be harder. There’s no magic turn-black-ray-gun. People who are black in the US have a history of being black, and they have a history of being perceived as black, and they have a history of being born to parents who are perceived as black. It’s very, very silly to suggest that Romney would already have been president if he were black. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/124 "2012-10-30T13:26:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s very, very silly to suggest that Romney would already have been president if he were black. It’s silly to suggest that his race would hurt him. Romney and Obama are about the same age (14 years different) so they are the same generation. Your argument that it’s impossible for someone of that generation to be black and become president are obviously false. See Obama, Barack. I think he’s got a Wikipedia page. I also love how you argue that he couldn’t have been black and Mormon as if his religion is some sort of benefit. He won the Republican nomination despite being Mormon, not because of it. If being black moves him from Mormon to Protestant that’s a big plus which helps him, not the other way around. Again, when you suggest a change of race I don’t assume we change anything but the color of his skin. I think it’s a bit racist to assume otherwise, as if blacks aren’t capable of succeeding in this country. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/125 "2012-10-30T13:42:26Z")
Those 14 years are critical, as it would mean that Romney grew up before the Civil Rights Act of the early 60s, whereas Obama grew up after it. But yeah, if he had been the black, Mormon son of a Governor, who grew up in the 1950s, that would make him a unique individual in the US indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/126 "2012-10-30T13:48:30Z")
While we’re complicating the hypotheticals, let’s make Romney the black son of a single mother, a wealthy white Mormon governor who was, herself, born in Mexico. I think that really gets to the heart of race and politics in America, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/127 "2012-10-30T13:53:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > While we’re complicating the hypotheticals, let’s make Romney the black son of a single mother, a wealthy white Mormon governor who was, herself, born in Mexico. I think that really gets to the heart of race and politics in America, don’t you? He’d be shuckin’ and jivin’ his way to the White House in no time! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/128 "2012-10-30T16:39:40Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I also love how you argue that he couldn’t have been black and Mormon as if his religion is some sort of benefit. He won the Republican nomination despite being Mormon, not because of it. So, if Romney gets elected, will you in four years be arguing that whoever the Democrats nominate would be a shoo-in if only they were of that highly electable religion? “If only Hillary were a Mormon, why, she’d be unstoppable!” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/129 "2012-10-30T16:45:00Z")
Some [early voting numbers from Gallup.](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/poll-obama-and-romney-roughly-even-in-early-voting/) As you can see from the commentary, Republicans say numbers like these (from elsewhere too, apparently) show that Romney is “crushing” Obama in early voting. ETA: [Other](http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2012.html) [numbers](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/30/1152332/-Daily-Kos-SEIU-State-of-the-Nation-poll-Big-early-voting-lead-for-Obama-but-tied-nbsp-overall?detail=hide) [which](http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5859) seem at least mildly contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930/130 "2012-10-30T16:53:42Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s silly to suggest that his race would hurt him. Romney and Obama are about the same age (14 years different) so they are the same generation. Your argument that it’s impossible for someone of that generation to be black and become president are obviously false. You’re right. My argument that macaroons are actually the freeze-dried brains of macaque monkeys is equally false. Alas, I’m making neither argument. > [@](#): > > Again, when you suggest a change of race I don’t assume we change anything but the color of his skin. I think it’s a bit racist to assume otherwise, as if blacks aren’t capable of succeeding in this country. This is getting sillier and sillier. Your understanding of race appears to be that it’s a solely biological construct with no social element. Not only that, you imply that anyone who believes there’s a social element to it is “a bit racist.” Being black is not about melanin (to be fair, it’s only trivially about melanin). If you this is the vapidity of your understanding of race, no wonder you’re floundering in this discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-election-so-close/638930.md?page=6)