# Why is this joke funny (from "1776") **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 1, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596 "2012-11-01T17:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/41 "2013-01-05T05:16:23Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So what’s a “gentleman cow”? A very confused animal. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/42 "2013-01-05T23:12:02Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > It is a curious feature of modern English that there really isn’t a word for the animal that chews its cud and goes “Moo”. > > You have a word for a male animal of that species, a word for the female animal, a word for the immature female, the immature male, the undifferentiated immature animal, the undifferentiated adolescent animal, the castrated male, the male animal used as a draft animal, the mature female who has not yet borne offspring, the infant animal used for food, and, finally, a word for an undifferentiated group of the animals. > > However, there is no generic word for an unspecified, individual, animal. > > It has been suggested that this species is unique in that the generic term for the animal is the term for the female of the species, and this is not implausible, but not entirely correct. It has also been suggested that the more or less archaic usage of “a beef” is another possibility, but this is certainly not modern English. > > It is a conundrum. The idiomatic word is cow. Of course there’s always a wiseguy who goes on and on about bulls and cows. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/43 "2013-01-06T01:01:41Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So what’s a “gentleman cow”? Beef. > [@](#): > > “Truly,” said Wamba, without stirring from the spot, “I have consulted my legs upon this matter, and they are altogether of opinion, that to carry my gay garments through these sloughs, would be an act of unfriendship to my sovereign person and royal wardrobe; wherefore, Gurth, I advise thee to call off Fangs, and leave the herd to their destiny, which, whether they meet with bands of travelling soldiers, or of outlaws, or of wandering pilgrims, can be little else than to be converted into Normans before morning, to thy no small ease and comfort.” > > “The swine turned Normans to my comfort!” quoth Gurth; “expound that to me, Wamba, for my brain is too dull, and my mind too vexed, to read riddles.” > > “Why, how call you those grunting brutes running about on their four legs?” demanded Wamba. > > “Swine, fool, swine,” said the herd, “every fool knows that.” > > “And swine is good Saxon,” said the Jester; “but how call you the sow when she is flayed, and drawn, and quartered, and hung up by the heels, like a traitor?” > > “Pork,” answered the swine-herd. > > “I am very glad every fool knows that too,” said Wamba, “and pork, I think, is good Norman-French; and so when the brute lives, and is in the charge of a Saxon slave, she goes by her Saxon name; but becomes a Norman, and is called pork, when she is carried to the Castle-hall to feast among the nobles; what dost thou think of this, friend Gurth, ha?” > > “It is but too true doctrine, friend Wamba, however it got into thy fool’s pate.” > > “Nay, I can tell you more,” said Wamba, in the same tone; “there is old Alderman Ox continues to hold his Saxon epithet, while he is under the charge of serfs and bondsmen such as thou, but becomes Beef, a fiery French gallant, when he arrives before the worshipful jaws that are destined to consume him. Mynheer Calf, too, becomes Monsieur de Veau in the like manner; he is Saxon when he requires tendance, and takes a Norman name when he becomes matter of enjoyment.” – _Ivanhoe,_ Sir Walter Scott ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/44 "2013-01-06T01:07:52Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > It’s also hilariious if you are a Freemason. Please explain, if your Craft Oaths so permit. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/45 "2013-01-06T04:44:52Z")
Neat. (Verily shall the Wise rede this riddle without my expounding of it…) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/46 "2013-01-06T04:51:26Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Neat. > > (Verily shall the Wise rede this riddle without my expounding of it…) [**neat**](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=neat&searchmode=none) (n.) “ox, bullock, cow,” O.E. neat “ox, beast, animal,” from P.Gmc. \*nautam “thing of value, possession” (cf. O.Fris. nat, M.Du. noot, O.H.G. noz, O.N. naut), from PIE root \*neud- “to make use of, enjoy.” ---
**Author:** ![applebetty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4af34b/32.png) [@applebetty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/applebetty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/47 "2013-01-06T04:59:51Z")
A bull has all its powers intact, as in representation (with taxation); while an ox is castrated (rendered impotent) as to legal powers. Female oxen just muddy the waters. And the word is “cattle” for the various sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/48 "2013-01-06T05:21:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [**neat**](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=neat&searchmode=none) (n.) “ox, bullock, cow,” O.E. neat “ox, beast, animal,” from P.Gmc. \*nautam “thing of value, possession” (cf. O.Fris. nat, M.Du. noot, O.H.G. noz, O.N. naut), from PIE root \*neud- “to make use of, enjoy.” Bullseye. So to speak. The definition of **neat[sup]2[/sup]** from the _American Heritage Dictionary_, 5th ed.: “A cow or other domestic bovine animal.” Which I thought was a good fulfillment for the request for an English word that means that. It isn’t delimited by gender. It means a bovine domestic animal, and it’s a real English noun to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/49 "2013-01-06T07:50:53Z")
You get an Ox when you castrate a bull. You let them mature with their testicles so they get big and strong. Then you cut them off. Steers get them cut off much younger. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/50 "2013-01-06T08:09:31Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > It has been suggested that this species is unique in that the generic term for the animal is the term for the female of the species, and this is not implausible, but not entirely correct. It has also been suggested that the more or less archaic usage of “a beef” is another possibility, but this is certainly not modern English. > > It is a conundrum. The word “ox” is actually used in that sense as well, for a single bovine. Just not by farmers, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/51 "2013-01-06T20:52:12Z")
There’s “cattle beast” which indicates a single animal of that species of which we do not know it’s sex, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/52 "2013-01-06T22:06:07Z")
I think neat is neat. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/53 "2013-01-07T05:20:13Z")
Back to _1776_… Why does Franklin say, “Oh, that word!” when Adams compliments Jefferson by saying (singing), “… and you’re a diplomat!” Is it just because Franklin was a diplomat himself? And if so, is Franklin indicating his love of the profession or his distaste for it? I’ve heard the line in several productions and it’s said a little differently every time. It seems ambiguous to me, and I’m not quite sure what the playwright meant by it. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/54 "2013-01-08T00:45:58Z")
In the absence of the lyricist’s authoritative word on the subject, we are left with conjecture. The most obvious (and most boring) possibility is that it means nothing at all. The lyricist was stuck for a rhyme and filled the gap with an aside comment that often gets a chuckle by virtue of its wry delivery alone. Within the same song, Franklin says “I won’t put politics on paper, It’s a mania” which is pretty meaningless because he, in point of fact, wrote a great deal about politics. So there’s no compelling reason why we should expect “Oh, that word” to be of any significance. One could, however, just as easily make the argument that in their particular context, the term _diplomat_ might not have been the highest compliment. Franklin’s attempts at ameliorating Parliament’s attitude towards the colonies had ended in failure, and one can easily see how being reminded of this would put him off. Or, perhaps, a _diplomat_ might have been viewed as a person straddling the political fence, trying to appeal to both sides of an unbridgeable gap without committing to either. Just WAGs on my part. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/55 "2013-01-08T02:10:13Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Or, perhaps, a _diplomat_ might have been viewed as a person straddling the political fence . . . Much easier for an ox than a bull, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596/56 "2013-01-08T23:43:50Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > …Just WAGs on my part. But very interesting ones - thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-joke-funny-from-1776/639596.md?page=2)