# Why is this site overwhelmingly atheist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938 "2014-08-30T04:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/181 "2014-09-07T12:19:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The problem with this argument is that it means…nothing can possibly exist. > > You’ve defined “reality” as being self-contradictory. > > Since we know there is such a thing as reality, the definition is patently flawed. > > Again: God might be the universe. He isn’t “in” it: he “is” it. That is one possible exception to your argument about “having a place to exist” and, all by itself, invalidates your supposition. > > (I do not endorse that view, I hasten to add. I’m an atheist, and consider any talk about God to be meaningless. But it is not automatically invalid on the kind of definitional grounds you’re attempting to construct.) > > (I also hasten to add that I bear you no ill will, and that I am not stalking you, hounding you, or belittling you. I think you’re wrong, is all, and when you say something like that, I will respond. I beg you not to consider this in any way an indication of personal disrespect. You say “n is prime” and I say “n is composite” and there really isn’t any way for either of us to prove our contention.) What is not in existence does not exist! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/182 "2014-09-07T17:37:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; believers should file their Bibles away as just another book of mythology, and take their blindfolds _off._ Can you say “doublethink”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/183 "2014-09-07T18:13:41Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Can you say “doublethink”? Yes. I’ve no idea why you’re bringing it up though. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/184 "2014-09-07T18:30:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes. I’ve no idea why you’re bringing it up though. Not to get involved on this but I think he is referring to the fact that if one uses blindfolds when reading the Bible they should not be able to read it. 🙂 But with him I wonder if that is what he is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/185 "2014-09-07T19:38:33Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > What is not in existence does not exist! This seems to be completely non-responsive. It neither confirms nor denies anything I said. Here’s the thing: you can’t prove – or disprove – God’s existence semantically. There isn’t any magic definition. The believer doesn’t get to say, “God must be perfect, and perfection cannot have any flaws; non-existence is a flaw, therefore God must exist.” That’s a load of crap. And you don’t get to say, “God as the creator of all things can’t exist, because before he existed he had to have a place to exist.” That is also, forgive the blunt dismissal, a very bad argument. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/186 "2014-09-07T20:22:50Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Can you say “doublethink”? care to explain how that applies here? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/187 "2014-09-07T22:04:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes. I’ve no idea why you’re bringing it up though. Well, how can one be a “believer” if they regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/188 "2014-09-07T22:06:07Z")
> [@simster](#): > > care to explain how that applies here? Well, how can one be a “believer” and regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/189 "2014-09-07T22:13:26Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Well, how can one be a “believer” if they regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? Perhaps a believer can believe in most of the Bible? Do you think that if even one tiny bit of the Bible was proven to be false, the entire thing should be thrown out? If atheists thought that we’d be rightly condemned as extreme. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/190 "2014-09-07T22:18:15Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Well, how can one be a “believer” if they regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? Oh well, I was afraid to be right on the last item. So the simple logic problem of what **Der Thris** said was not it. Incidentally, I have an idea about what god may be but this idea of treating the bible as mythology and still being a believer is not a strange one, several founding fathers of the USA were deists. With a strong tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/191 "2014-09-07T22:30:00Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Well, how can one be a “believer” and regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? Not much of an explanation for the term “double think” or how it applies to blinders, etc - but - to respond - Depends on exactly what one is believing “in” - ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/192 "2014-09-07T22:45:15Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Well, how can one be a “believer” if they regard the Bible as mythology? Or is this just convenient hypocrisy? No, I’m saying they should _stop being_ believers. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/193 "2014-09-07T23:42:03Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Perhaps a believer can believe in most of the Bible? Do you think that if even one tiny bit of the Bible was proven to be false, the entire thing should be thrown out? > If atheists thought that we’d be rightly condemned as extreme. Whoawhoawhoa hang on a minute. We’re talking about a book which believers hold up as written by those inspired by the divine spirit. _If even one tiny bit of the Bible was proven to be false, that goes out the window!_ We’re talking about a _divine_ standard here. God isn’t allowed to be wrong - he’s perfect. Omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. If something in there is wrong, then one of those obviously isn’t the case. Or, the book is not written by god, at which point there’s no real reason to hold on to it any longer. It’s absolutely not unreasonable to throw out the entire bible if even one thing is shown to be wrong. In fact, the unreasonable thing would be to hold it as divinely inspired _despite_ containing anything less than perfection. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/194 "2014-09-08T00:02:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Whoawhoawhoa hang on a minute. > > We’re talking about a book which believers hold up as written by those inspired by the divine spirit. > > _If even one tiny bit of the Bible was proven to be false, that goes out the window!_ . . . The trouble with this reasoning is that there is plenty wrong with the Bible; this absolutism in reasoning (laughingly so-called) is that it requires denialism. I do know a very nice lady, studying for the ministry, who declares, with a straight face, “There are no contradictions in the Bible.” Absolutist belief invites this kind of schizophrenia. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/195 "2014-09-08T00:07:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The trouble with this reasoning is that there is plenty wrong with the Bible; this absolutism in reasoning (laughingly so-called) is that it requires denialism. > > I do know a very nice lady, studying for the ministry, who declares, with a straight face, “There are no contradictions in the Bible.” > > Absolutist belief invites this kind of schizophrenia. Well… yeah. I personally believe any Christian who believes the bible is divinely inspired and isn’t a denialist is a hypocrite (although this is one of those cases where hypocrite is not the worse option). What’s missing in my reasoning? Don’t just appeal to the consequences (especially because the consequence, that the Bible may not be divinely inspired and may be of no more value than any other dusty tome full of fairy tales, is hardly something horrifying); what am I missing? Are parts of the bible divinely inspired, and others not? How could you determine which are which (other than “the parts which are wrong aren’t”, which seems fallacious to me)? Does divine inspiration not mean that the texts are flawless? But if so, why should we care? The bible is not perfect, and contains numerous flaws - why should it not be considered worthless as a primary source? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/196 "2014-09-08T01:11:03Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Perhaps a believer can believe in most of the Bible? […] You mean pick and choose? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/197 "2014-09-08T01:14:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oh well, I was afraid to be right on the last item. So the simple logic problem of what **Der Thris** said was not it. > > Incidentally, I have an idea about what god may be but this idea of treating the bible as mythology and still being a believer is not a strange one, several founding fathers of the USA were deists. With a strong tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Bible. That last sentence sounds like something right out of \* Pravda. \* ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/198 "2014-09-08T01:19:51Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > That last sentence sounds like something right out of \* Pravda. \* Do you know what a deist is? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/199 "2014-09-08T01:20:28Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You mean pick and choose? Well, I suggest to do it like an enlightened person did 200 years ago: > **[Jefferson Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible)** > > The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson compiled the manuscripts but never published them. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today. The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting, with a razor and glue, numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the ... > [@](#): > > In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves. We must dismiss the Platonists and Plotinists, the Stagyrites and Gamalielites, the Eclectics, the Gnostics and Scholastics, their essences and emanations, their logos and demiurges, aeons and daemons, male and female, with a long train of … or, shall I say at once, of nonsense. We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. The result is an octavo of forty-six pages, of pure and unsophisticated doctrines.[5] > [@](#): > > Jefferson’s claim to be a Christian was made in response to those who accused him of being otherwise, due to his unorthodox view of the Bible and conception of Christ. Recognizing his rather unique views, Jefferson stated in a letter (1819) to Ezra Stiles Ely, “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”[33] ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/200 "2014-09-08T01:20:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, I’m saying they should _stop being_ believers. I know Voltaire was no lover of the Bible, but I think of a quotation from him at this point, that seems to apply to your ilk: “Go up into an attic and rule the world.” And there’s a comment at the start of Chapter 15 of \* Pudd’nhead Wilson \* that applies here.:mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=11)