# Why is this site overwhelmingly atheist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938 "2014-08-30T04:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/221 "2014-09-08T03:48:12Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Jesus told the apostles that he was the fulfillment of the Law. I think this was mentioned in Romans 10:4; I’m not sure that’s the correct verse… Further - [QUOTE=Jesus @ Mathew 5] 17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. \*\*18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, \*\*but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/222 "2014-09-08T03:50:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You’re hanging your hat on “in the yeah of our lord” ? Yes, that is the straw that **dougie\_monty** is grasping to, of course what Jefferson and the other authors of the constitution actually thought is meaningless to him. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/223 "2014-09-08T03:51:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I won’t believe a woman is a Fundamentalist until she camps out back during her periods. Ditto for folks wearing mixed fabrics, etc. . . . The mixed fabrics, specifically, God refers to as an abomination. Not just a rule of cleanliness; it is an abomination to God for us to mix fabrics. That isn’t going to change, even if other rules do. Maybe it’s okay to sacrifice somewhere other than at the Temple. Maybe we don’t have to cut the ends off our dicks. But how is God suddenly supposed to be okay with an abomination like mixing fabrics? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/224 "2014-09-08T04:05:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The mixed fabrics, specifically, God refers to as an abomination. > > Not just a rule of cleanliness; it is an abomination to God for us to mix fabrics. > > That isn’t going to change, even if other rules do. Maybe it’s okay to sacrifice somewhere other than at the Temple. Maybe we don’t have to cut the ends off our dicks. > > But how is God suddenly supposed to be okay with an abomination like mixing fabrics? It is like the now classic Oglaf (other strips are NSFW so no link) comic where an undefined army of warriors is destroyed by their own god after the king of the enemy made notice of what the chosen army was doing disobeying that and similar rules. The god then destroys all **his** “blaspheming” army. The king of the enemy then looks at the destroyed army of the god and comments: “Really, the only surprising thing is that it didn’t happen sooner.” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/225 "2014-09-08T04:09:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, that is the straw that **dougie\_monty** is grasping to, of course what Jefferson and the other authors of the constitution actually thought is meaningless to him. Jefferson was not an author of the Constitution, smartie. He wasn’t even in North America when the Constitution was drafted. He was in France at the time. And I have already told you I don’t put any value on Jefferson’s appraisal of the Bible. I happen to know there were contemporary political cartoons depicting him as a hater of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/226 "2014-09-08T04:17:08Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So, the rules/laws of GOD - its ok to change those to get more followers? > > Damn, why didn’t God think of that himself and just fix the law to begin with? > > Or are you saying that God just changes his mind about what it really means to be “faithful” ? You don’t think God should be allowed to change His own rules? Compare the 11th chapter of Leviticus with Acts 10:15. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/227 "2014-09-08T04:23:25Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Jefferson was not an author of the Constitution, smartie. He wasn’t even in North America when the Constitution was drafted. He was in France at the time. > And I have already told you I don’t put any value on Jefferson’s appraisal of the Bible. I happen to know there were contemporary political cartoons depicting him as a hater of the Bible. His not being at the _ **Convention** _ has nothing to do with his work on the articles themselves. [QUOTE=[Who Wrote the Constitution? - US Constitution - LAWS.com](http://constitution.laws.com/who-wrote-the-constitution)] Upon posing the question “Who Wrote the Constitution”, the answer given concerning the authorship of the Constitution will typically include a response reflecting a communal effort of authorship; the primary recipients of this classification of authorship are typically credited to Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Thomas Paine, and John Adams - George Washington is credited with the responsibility of overseeing the Constitutional Convention that took place in Philadelphia between May 5th 1787 and September 17th, 1787. - See more at: [Who Wrote the Constitution? - US Constitution - LAWS.com](http://constitution.laws.com/who-wrote-the-constitution#sthash.O9nwlTvS.dpuf) [/QUOTE] and wait - there were _ **political cartoons** _ that depicted him as a _ **hater of the bible** _ ??? OH MY GOD! You’ve convincd me… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/228 "2014-09-08T04:28:25Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You don’t think God should be allowed to change His own rules? Compare the 11th chapter of Leviticus with Acts 10:15. “God” doesn’t exist - people keep telling others what “God” reveals to them - so no, “God” doesn’t change, people do - [QUOTE=James 1:17] Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows [/QUOTE] Which implies, quite nicely - that any ‘rule changes’ means the first version from God was not good or perfect. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/229 "2014-09-08T04:31:34Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Jefferson was not an author of the Constitution, smartie. He wasn’t even in North America when the Constitution was drafted. He was in France at the time. Not a mayor one, but he was involved anyhow. > **[Learn About the United States (U.S.) Founding Fathers & More |...](https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-founding-fathers/)** > > Learn About The U.S. Founding Fathers Who Made Significant Contributions to the Constitution. Visit ConstitutionFacts.com Online to Learn More. > [@](#): > > Other U.S. Founding Fathers were not there, but made significant contributions in other ways. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, was serving as ambassador to France at the time of the Convention. He kept abreast of the proceedings in Philadelphia by carrying on correspondence with James Madison. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > And I have already told you I don’t put any value on Jefferson’s appraisal of the Bible. I happen to know there were contemporary political cartoons depicting him as a hater of the Bible. Your silly smartie point aside, I have to say that that was not the point, the point was to show that like Jefferson did many are choosing wisely and recognize that what could had been good in the bronze age or the Roman era is not operative now. Many religious people nowadays, as **Trinopus** pointed out, do not mind eating beef Stroganoff for example. And the country did manage until some guys from the south decided to continue to follow the bible regarding slavery. After they found out that god was not supporting the ones that did follow that, there has been no fire from above even after we began to not mind also what the gays are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/230 "2014-09-08T05:53:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is like the now classic Oglaf (other strips are NSFW so no link) comic where an undefined army of warriors is destroyed by their own god after the king of the enemy made notice of what the chosen army was doing disobeying that and similar rules. [Here’s](http://media.oglaf.com/comic/assorted_fruits.jpg) a link to the image alone, nothing NSFW. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/231 "2014-09-08T05:59:42Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You don’t think God should be allowed to change His own rules? Compare the 11th chapter of Leviticus with Acts 10:15. What possible reason could an omnipotent deity have to change his mind? Any being capable of seeing all and knowing all would by definition be perfect. Changing ones mind is an artifact of imperfection. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/232 "2014-09-08T06:38:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Here’s](http://media.oglaf.com/comic/assorted_fruits.jpg) a link to the image alone, nothing NSFW. Well, yes, safe for work; that is if your work is not in the Bible belt or a religious institution… ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/233 "2014-09-08T07:00:46Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > What possible reason could an omnipotent deity have to change his mind? Any being capable of seeing all and knowing all would by definition be perfect. Changing ones mind is an artifact of imperfection. To play extreme devil’s advocate: To a being that can see all time at once and thus cause/effect, that being may realize the necessity of different rules at different times. Strictly speaking, God isn’t “changing his mind” but simply taking a different action to steer everything to perfection. Just because I turn left after moving forward 20 paces because there’s a wall in front of me doesn’t mean I’m flawed, miscalculated, and changed my mind about moving forward. It just means that to get where I needed to go I needed to turn left at that point – it’s simply the best possible way of achieving my goal. Of course, then you get into all sorts of questions like “why did God design a universe with bizarre complexity where his rules need to change?” And “couldn’t he effortlessly change the properties of the universe such that his laws didn’t need to change?” And well, sure, the entire concept of an omnipotent, omniscient god strains belief, but I don’t think the idea of some atemporal being seemingly “changing their mind” can necessarily be seen as the same thing as a person living linearly in time changing their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/234 "2014-09-08T08:20:56Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You don’t think God should be allowed to change His own rules? The only reason to change your rules are either: 1. They don’t work. 2. They’re arbitrary. You don’t change perfection. But if we know, then, that they are imperfect, why follow them if we can come up with something better? If they’re arbitrary, that’s fairly good evidence that God is not trustworthy. Let’s note, for example, that God did not invent Democracy. He didn’t invent suffrage nor racial equality. He didn’t invent meritocracy. He didn’t teach us about the non-zero sum nature of international relations. Outside of his requirements for courts and witnesses, there’s nothing in the Old Testament that God teaches us except Feudalism, sexism, intolerance, and war. Do you think those were the right answer for the times? He couldn’t have told people that every human should have equal rights? In the New Testament, he basically teaches us Communism. Jesus’ teaching is that we should each live at a subsistence level and give everything you make beyond that, so that no one is ever in need. It took nearly 2000 years before anyone was even willing to give the idea a try and the results were not good. Again, do you believe this was the right answer for the times? He couldn’t have told people about the scientific method and other methods of improving productivity so that scarcity becomes a thing of the past? > **[What Does the Bible Say About Socialism?](http://www.openbible.info/topics/socialism)** > > Bible verses about Socialism > **[What Does the Bible Say About Communism?](http://www.openbible.info/topics/communism)** > > Bible verses about Communism [What Does the Bible Say About Capitalism?](http://www.openbible.info/topics/capitalism) (basically, the same quotes as the previous two) If God is just a guy with no greater idea of how to run the world than any contemporary human, what do we have to gain from giving his ideas any special credence? So far, John Locke has contributed more good ideas to the world than God ever did. So I mean great, God’s willing to adapt as better knowledge comes in. Commendable, I suppose. But if he’s a blithering idiot, who cares? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/235 "2014-09-08T11:54:48Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This seems to be completely non-responsive. It neither confirms nor denies anything I said. > > Here’s the thing: you can’t prove – or disprove – God’s existence semantically. There isn’t any magic definition. > > The believer doesn’t get to say, “God must be perfect, and perfection cannot have any flaws; non-existence is a flaw, therefore God must exist.” That’s a load of crap. > > And you don’t get to say, “God as the creator of all things can’t exist, because before he existed he had to have a place to exist.” That is also, forgive the blunt dismissal, a very bad argument. It is impossible for any attributes to have a flaw , because it would be non-existent, There are no qualities to something that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/236 "2014-09-08T14:06:12Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > What possible reason could an omnipotent deity have to change his mind? Any being capable of seeing all and knowing all would by definition be perfect. Changing ones mind is an artifact of imperfection. I said "rules, " not “mind.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/237 "2014-09-08T14:12:58Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I said "rules, " not “mind.” so, he knew in advance he was going to change the rules, and just sees it as part of his grand game to screw with his creation? Other than the obvious changes to the rules as recorded - is there any scriptural evidence that God said “hey, I’m gonna change these rules from time to time, just deal with it” ? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/238 "2014-09-08T14:15:10Z")
Atheism is good because the alternative is crazypants. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/239 "2014-09-08T14:29:22Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Jefferson was a politician, not a minister or a theologian. I would not engage a dentist to remove my gall bladder. Yes, and I would absolutely insist that if someone were sewing me a new suit of clothes that _only the wise could see_, that they be versed in the great sewing techniques of the masters, and trained by the very finest seamstresses in all of paris. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/240 "2014-09-08T14:39:16Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes, and I would absolutely insist that if someone were sewing me a new suit of clothes that _only the wise could see_, that they be versed in the great sewing techniques of the masters, and trained by the very finest seamstresses in all of paris. :rolleyes: Hans Christian Anderson you ain’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=13)