# Why is this site overwhelmingly atheist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938 "2014-08-30T04:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/401 "2014-09-22T17:00:27Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Compare Hebrews 11:1. > [@simster](#): > > Compare John 20:25 Just curious; why in the world wouldn’t you actually include the verse in your post? Why make the multiple people reading look it up, instead of just one (you), who likely has it in front of their face already? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/402 "2014-09-22T17:32:23Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Just curious; why in the world wouldn’t you actually include the verse in your post? Why make the multiple people reading look it up, instead of just one (you), who likely has it in front of their face already? I was responding in kind to **dougie\_monty** , with as much information and discussion as he was providing. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/403 "2014-09-22T22:17:44Z")
Very well: “To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.” (Today’s English Version) Why bring up John 20:25? Yes, I know what it says. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/404 "2014-09-23T00:00:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can we > > 1. Differentiate between “belief in spite of fact” and “belief based on fact” > 2. Try to be clear which one we are referring to when using the word, so as to put a stop to this confusion? I believe we not only can, we must. This is why I opened my response to **monavis** with “Not necessarily.” I didn’t say, “You’re wrong,” only that there is an ambiguity in the way the word is used. In one sense of the word, when I believe something on faith – “There is life other than on earth in the universe” – and then later find out, possibly to my surprise, that it actually is true – perhaps we receive signals from a distant solar system – I don’t stop believing what I believed. It turns from a belief based on faith into a belief based on fact, but it does not stop being a belief. monavis was using language in such a way as to indicate that, once the fact was established, the knowledge ceases to be a belief. This is valid is “belief” is defined as “belief based on faith.” But that isn’t the only definition of the word. Or…so I believe. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/405 "2014-09-23T01:05:56Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Very well: > “To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.” (Today’s English Version) > > Why bring up John 20:25? Yes, I know what it says. Yours has nothing to do with “belief” as was being discussed - John 20:25 shows that belief without evidence is not required, and in fact shows that demanding evidence is an acceptable, if not correct, thing to do. Your verse is second hand, by someone that only has “the unseen” to go on - the verse I quoted (at face value) is a demand by a direct apostle as recorded by another. In short - your verse, while an apt description of “faith” - is trumped when it comes to what may be required for one to “believe”. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/406 "2014-09-23T02:57:56Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Yours has nothing to do with “belief” as was being discussed - John 20:25 shows that belief without evidence is not required, and in fact shows that demanding evidence is an acceptable, if not correct, thing to do. > > Your verse is second hand, by someone that only has “the unseen” to go on - the verse I quoted (at face value) is a demand by a direct apostle as recorded by another. > > In short - your verse, while an apt description of “faith” - is trumped when it comes to what may be required for one to “believe”. :Sigh: As far as I am concerned, you are splitting hairs.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/407 "2014-09-23T05:37:39Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > :Sigh: As far as I am concerned, you are splitting hairs.:rolleyes: You’ve got to be kidding. Can’t you even offer an attempt at reconciling those two, discordant passages? I’m guessing not. To be fair, it’s one of many contradictions in the bible, and no feat of logic or reason is going to bring the plain meaning of those two verses into an accord. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/408 "2014-09-23T06:28:20Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > You’ve got to be kidding. Can’t you even offer an attempt at reconciling those two, discordant passages? I’m guessing not. To be fair, it’s one of many contradictions in the bible, and no feat of logic or reason is going to bring the plain meaning of those two verses into an accord. I do not recognize Thomas’ statement as binding or reliable at all. And I have heard people claim contradictions exists in the Bible, for years; means nothing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/409 "2014-09-23T12:11:21Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I do not recognize Thomas’ statement as binding or reliable at all. And I have heard people claim contradictions exists in the Bible, for years; means nothing to me. Who is the father of Joseph? > [@](#): > > MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. > [@](#): > > LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. What were the last words of Jesus? > [@](#): > > MAT 27:46,50: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” …Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.” > [@](#): > > LUK 23:46: “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, “Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:” and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” > [@](#): > > JOH 19:30: “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished:” and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” Hoe did Judas die? > [@](#): > > “And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself.” (MAT 27:5) > [@](#): > > “And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.” (ACT 1:18) That’s just a small sample from the New Testament. Want more? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/410 "2014-09-23T12:19:01Z")
Oh, and my favorite one. This one is great because these two verses are right next to each other and yet directly contradict each other: > [@](#): > > PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. > [@](#): > > PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/411 "2014-09-23T14:30:38Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > …And I have heard people claim contradictions exists in the Bible, for years; means nothing to me. Then you’re the one choosing to keep your blinders on. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/412 "2014-09-23T14:45:01Z")
You sure know how to hand me straight lines! Blinders yet… \* I’m \* not the one thinking like a horse! I once found a book of “last words” in which Jesus’ words from the Gospels were combined, in a logical order. Joseph was Jesus’ foster father, in case you hadn’t guessed. The verses in Proverbs take a little more time to deal with…I’ll return to it later today. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/413 "2014-09-23T15:00:55Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > You sure know how to hand me straight lines! Blinders yet… \* I’m \* not the one thinking like a horse! The phrase has nothing to do with thinking like a horse. > [@](#): > > I once found a book of “last words” in which Jesus’ words from the Gospels were combined, in a logical order. What is a “logical order” of last words? Either a set of words are a person’s last, or they are not. > [@](#): > > Joseph was Jesus’ foster father, in case you hadn’t guessed. The contradiction was about Joseph’s father, not Jesus’ father. Your responses don’t even make enough sense to be wrong. They are non sequiturs. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/414 "2014-09-23T15:36:21Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I do not recognize Thomas’ statement as binding or reliable at all. No surprise, since his declaration of Jesus as “my lord and my god” is especially problematic for some. But - who are _you_ to decide what statements are, or are not , binding and reliable? isn’t the entire bible supposed to be “god breathed” and beneficial? [QUOTE=2 Timothy 3:16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [/QUOTE] Or is it only the parts you like/agree with? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/415 "2014-09-23T15:47:58Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I once found a book of “last words” in which Jesus’ words from the Gospels were combined, in a logical order. How odd that no one writing the actual gospels managed that feat. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/416 "2014-09-23T15:58:56Z")
> [@simster](#): > > No surprise, since his declaration of Jesus as “my lord and my god” is especially problematic for some. > > But - who are _you_ to decide what statements are, or are not , binding and reliable? > > isn’t the entire bible supposed to be “god breathed” and beneficial? > > Or is it only the parts you like/agree with? - You \* have no room to talk. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/417 "2014-09-23T16:06:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The phrase has nothing to do with thinking like a horse.What is a “logical order” of last words? Either a set of words are a person’s last, or they are not.The contradiction was about Joseph’s father, not Jesus’ father. > Your responses don’t even make enough sense to be wrong. They are non sequiturs. I brought the matter of Heli up a long time ago: Inasmuch as the context of Luke 2 and 3 deals more with Mary, and women’s names were rarely included in genealogies, it is reasonable to surmise that the line of descent in Luke 3:23-38 is through Mary, not Joseph, and Heli was \* her \* father. As for Judas, combining the accounts suggests a tree at a cliff’s edge; the bough broke, and he hit the bottom, so his bowels gushed out (yukk!) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/418 "2014-09-23T16:17:52Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I brought the matter of Heli up a long time ago: Inasmuch as the context of Luke 2 and 3 deals more with Mary, and women’s names were rarely included in genealogies, it is reasonable to surmise that the line of descent in Luke 3:23-38 is through Mary, not Joseph, and Heli was \* her \* father. Except for the nagging fact that the scripture clearly states it’s Joseph’s father we’re talking about… > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > As for Judas, combining the accounts suggests a tree at a cliff’s edge; the bough broke, and he hit the bottom, so his bowels gushed out (yukk!) Except for the nagging fact that there is nothing in scripture that states that the bough broke or that he fell down a cliff or that the thing he hung himself from was anywhere near one… ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/419 "2014-09-23T16:20:54Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Except for the nagging fact that the scripture clearly states it’s Joseph’s father we’re talking about… > > Except for the nagging fact that there is nothing in scripture that states that the bough broke or that he fell down a cliff or that the thing he hung himself from was anywhere near one… You’re nagging, all right.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938/420 "2014-09-23T16:22:19Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I brought the matter of Heli up a long time ago: Inasmuch as the context of Luke 2 and 3 deals more with Mary, and women’s names were rarely included in genealogies, it is reasonable to surmise that the line of descent in Luke 3:23-38 is through Mary, not Joseph, and Heli was \* her \* father. The verses are a _direct_ contradiction, no matter how you spin it. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > As for Judas, combining the accounts suggests a tree at a cliff’s edge; the bough broke, and he hit the bottom, so his bowels gushed out (yukk!) My-What a _vivid_ imagination you must have, what with trees on the edges of cliffs and boughs breaking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-this-site-overwhelmingly-atheist/696938.md?page=22)