You know, I should have brought this up sooner–I might have obviated a great deal of acrimony in this thread…James 2:24ff: Faith without works is dead.
Faith without facts is a waste.
Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
This is nonsense. There are plenty of words that have the meaning you intended with your slur without resorting to either slurs or what you call circumlocution. In any event, you are back to playing games, trying to divert the thread into odd sidebar discussions over your expression when your claim had no basis in fact, and that does not bode well for either this thread or your participation.
Stick to the topic, if you can.
He can’t stick to the topic, because he does not understand what the topic is.
He clearly believe that pointing out that the literalist interpretation of Scripture is TRUTH, and anyone who is pointing out the inconsistencies this generates is “attacking the Bible.” He does not recognize that the attacks are against the overcomplicated fairy-tales his preacher has fed him to “explain” these contradictions.
(I am one of the folks who believe the message of the Bible is too important to take the actual writing literally.)
And this is what I don’t get in non-literal believers.
You recognise it is a bundle of old books, written between some 2600 and 1900 years ago, riddled with errors and contradictions with lots of influence from other religions and older versions of itself. Exactly what you would expect if written by people in some backwater, that had only just mastered the art of iron smelting.
Yet they cling to the idea that this book is “holy” and that amidst this mishmash is hidden God’s special message to mankind. If you just read it right.
yeah, pretty much.
I also learned how to deal with other people through The Wizard of Oz series, several fantasy novels, and a host of other influences. I admit to being a cafeteria Christian, taking what matches my cultural mores as “useful” or “important” and dismissing most everything else as being the product of a different culture.
I never said anything about “God’s special message to mankind,” but I really dislike the type of absurd fan-wanking that Literalists need to perform to maintain their preconceived interpretation.
Sitting in your chair is knowledge, not just belief, knowing something is provable. Just as writing on Straight Dope is provable.
People do this with other things as well. The Constitution, The Secret, all sorts of documents get supernatural wisdom attributed to them and their authors. People want a certain amount of certainty and predictability, and are willing to deal with being wrong in order to get it, so long as being wrong does not unduly impact their everyday lives.
If one scorns the Bible he most likely has not accepted it because he sees too many contradictions, there is no contradiction in truth. It is belief in another human not any God.
But the messages contained in the bible range the whole spectrum, from the commendable (treat those around you the way you want to be treated) to the utterly vile (“this is how much you need to pay to buy another human being”), and none of the good ones are anywhere near unique - in fact, they’re mostly basic moral statements that anyone could derive on their own. What useful thing has Christianity offered which almost every other culture in the world, religious or not, hasn’t figure out? And does it justify carrying the degree of baggage that Christianity does? Yeah, you may have learned how to deal with other people through The Wizard Of Oz, but TWOZ doesn’t contain passages explaining that it is A) the divine, perfect truth handed down by God, B) Slavery is okay, and C) Homosexuals should be killed.
Which is used as an excuse for all of the failed expectations based on the clear message from Jesus “anything you ask in my name…” and “faith as small as a mustard seed…”
It’s also, in context, more about acting ON your faith as a person - you should be doing good things, not doing negative things - in otherwords, your faith should impact and affect those around you in a positve light.
[QUOTE= JAMes 2]
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for reminding me.
adds eggs to shopping list
I have not “scorned” the Bible. If you go back and look at the posts, I have not said one single solitary word about the Bible, pro or anti. I have a personal rule not to get involved in arguing about religion online in any way.
My only interest is in improving the quality of the debate. I don’t give a crap if you win or lose this argument. I am just deeply offended when I see really shit debating skills. And you, sir, have really REALLY shit debating skills.
I’ll be happy to scorn the bible on your behalf.
I doubt that, with your contempt for the Bible, you would actually have gone to the trouble of discerning a message in it in the first place.
Are you claiming that anyone not taking the Bible literally holds it in contempt?
So its message requires a literal interpretation?
From the way you write, your inkwell must have a skull and crossbones on it.
Do you make hateful comments like that to anyone you meet who has a Bible with them? Or do you save your offensive comments for the safe isolation of the message board?
Spoken like a true drunk in a bar at 1:45 a.m.