# Why is Thor more worthy to wield Mjolnir than Cap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920 "2014-10-29T17:04:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/41 "2014-10-30T12:29:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not immobile by virtue of being heavy; it’s immobile by virtue of being immobile. Notice that it doesn’t tip over, either, despite being in an unbalanced position. If you moved the coffee table out from under it, the hammer would remain in the same spot, suspended in mid-air. But in the Thor film, Thor immobilized Loki by placing Mjolnir on his chest. It certainly seemed like it was “heavy” then. If it was just immobile, Loki could have probably wriggled out from under there. [QUOTE=tripthinket] And so we come back around to the notion that the hammer can’t be moved, but the ground it rests on (or the quinjet, the helicarrier, an ice cream truck) can. [/QUOTE] It’s probably the same property that prevents Kitty Pryde from falling to the centre of the earth, even though she can pass through anything and is otherwise still affected by gravity. Superpowers know what the locally relevant “ground” is and take pains to make an exception for it 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/42 "2014-10-30T13:11:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Odin defines what worthy means, for one thing. Cap’s values are not necessarily Aesir values. > > Also, I expect that the hammer is freaking heavy. Cap is probably the strongest non-superpowered human on Earth, but he’s still just a guy. Wouldn’t surprise me if an uru hammer weighs over a ton. That’s one tough coat hook in Thor 2. Going purely by what’s in the movied, Thor’s virtues are the result of his upbringing and the experiences he had in New Mexico, and he has developed into the person who is worthy of Mjolnir. Cap may have started out as a really great guy who hated bullies and fought for the underdog, but the Captain America-level virtues were imposed on him by Erskine’s procedure. If Erskine hadn’t been shot, there’d be a thousand people with that level of ability, and having that many people artificially able to wield Mjolnir just ain’t right. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/43 "2014-10-30T14:01:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > When is the hammer just lying around for someone to pick up? I thought it would come flying back to Thor after being thrown. I remember a scene from an old Team-Up where Spider-Man webs the hammer in flight, thinking he’s going to slow it down, only to get pulled along as the hammer crashes through wall after wall of a building. Then at some point he sees the hammer flying the other direction back at him, he gets flipped around as it passes him, and he gets pulled back through the same series of holes. Eventually Thor catches the hammer and then bemusedly catches Spider-Man with an arm across his middle (basically punching him in the stomach). > > ETA: [Found it!](http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/mtu12.jpg) I remember that old scene from Marvel Team-Up. Hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/44 "2014-10-30T15:18:18Z")
Rogers gained his _abilities_ from Erskine’s serum, but the serum didn’t do a thing to his virtues. That’s why Erskine was so insistent on the careful selection process: Before, the serum wasn’t completely right, but more importantly, neither was the man, and the result was Red Skull. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/45 "2014-10-30T15:28:04Z")
So the hammer, the Juggernaut, and Thor are standing in a line. Juggernaut starts walking toward the hammer just as Thor summons the hammer. Will Juggernaut be able to keep walking with the hammer pushing against his chest? Will the hammer yield and go around Juggernaut? Will Thor get pulled toward the straining hammer? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/46 "2014-10-30T15:30:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rogers gained his _abilities_ from Erskine’s serum, but the serum didn’t do a thing to his virtues. That’s why Erskine was so insistent on the careful selection process: Before, the serum wasn’t completely right, but more importantly, neither was the man, and the result was Red Skull. When was that established? Last time I checked–admittedly more than a decade ago–the Red Skull started off as a bellboy Hitler picked to prove that he could mold anybody he felt like into an evil geniusl ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/47 "2014-10-30T15:32:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rogers gained his _abilities_ from Erskine’s serum, but the serum didn’t do a thing to his virtues. That’s why Erskine was so insistent on the careful selection process: Before, the serum wasn’t completely right, but more importantly, neither was the man, and the result was Red Skull. Yes, the serum probably amplified his mental abilities and general clarity, but inside it was all Steve, and his experiences in WW2 just added to it. The better you are, the more good you do, so you’re better, so… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/48 "2014-10-30T15:51:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So the hammer, the Juggernaut, and Thor are standing in a line. Juggernaut starts walking toward the hammer just as Thor summons the hammer. Will Juggernaut be able to keep walking with the hammer pushing against his chest? Will the hammer yield and go around Juggernaut? Will Thor get pulled toward the straining hammer? Was the Juggernaut’s power forged in the heart of a dying star? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/49 "2014-10-30T15:59:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Movie-Thor isn’t really a god, apparently. Yes, but does _Mjolnir_ know that? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/50 "2014-10-30T16:13:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > When was that established? Last time I checked–admittedly more than a decade ago–the Red Skull started off as a bellboy Hitler picked to prove that he could mold anybody he felt like into an evil geniusl It’s the Red Skull backstory in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which may or may not bear any resemblance to the comics. Here’s the [clip from the first Cap movie](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilacIxq3T7g), with Dr. Erskine explaining all of this to Steve. (Schmidt’s story starts at around 1:10.) “The serum amplifies everything that is inside. So, good becomes great. Bad becomes worse.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/51 "2014-10-30T16:21:57Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Was the Juggernaut’s power forged in the heart of a dying star?\ Isn’t all matter in the universe forged in the heart of a dying star? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/52 "2014-10-30T16:33:54Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Isn’t all matter in the universe forged in the heart of a dying star? Not the hydrogen. But yes, most of the consumers goods and durable items are. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/53 "2014-10-30T17:33:04Z")
And which Juggernaut? Colossus seems like a scarier version, since he already had his powers. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/54 "2014-10-30T17:36:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Odin defines what worthy means, for one thing. Cap’s values are not necessarily Aesir values. > > Also, I expect that the hammer is freaking heavy. Cap is probably the strongest non-superpowered human on Earth, but he’s still just a guy. Wouldn’t surprise me if an uru hammer weighs over a ton. I don’t think so. It sits on that coffee table with no problems. (in the new trailer) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/55 "2014-10-30T21:22:07Z")
Not an IKEA product, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/56 "2014-10-30T21:55:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Not an IKEA product, clearly. The coffee table, or the hammer? Because “Mjölnir” sure looks like the name of an IKEA product. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/57 "2014-10-30T23:29:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes, but does _Mjolnir_ know that? You could ask him. I think he’s still posting, but under a new name. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/58 "2014-10-31T00:08:25Z")
Eric Masterson could lift Mjolnir, you aren’t gonna get very far claiming he’s more worthy than Cap. But yeah, as mentioned Cap has lifted it in the comics, and the only one\* to have done so without turning into an ersatz Thor in the process. That’s pretty fuckin worthy to not even have to transform, IMO. \*well, besides Odin, but you can’t really count him, he’s got access to the source code ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/59 "2014-10-31T00:23:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Cultural context - I suspect Viking “worthiness” differs from American worthiness. It’s probably more about bravery, fierceness and alcohol consumption. Wenching. Steve Rogers doesn’t wench. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/60 "2014-10-31T02:03:33Z")
Are you sure? As he said in _Winter Soldier_ he’s 95, he’s not dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920.md?page=4)