# Why is Thor more worthy to wield Mjolnir than Cap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920 "2014-10-29T17:04:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/61 "2014-10-31T17:33:30Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Wenching. Steve Rogers doesn’t wench. So, a little wenching and he could rival Thor for worthiness? Interesting! (And, why _isn’t_ Mjölnir an Ikea product?!?) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/62 "2014-10-31T20:33:39Z")
Wolverine might be worthy. He drinks, wenches, lives by a code and yet can go berserk at times. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/63 "2014-10-31T21:02:33Z")
One interpretation of that _Avengers II_ scene: Steve _is_ fully worthy. He has no metaphysical impediment to moving the hammer. But it’s still a really heavy hammer, heavy enough that he can’t wield it as an effective weapon. When he grabs it, he moves it a little… and having satisfied himself that he can do it, he stops trying, because he doesn’t feel the need to show off. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/64 "2014-10-31T22:53:38Z")
One of Roger’s bedrock principles is the importance of democracy. I suspect a big part of “worthiness” as defined by Odin is a strong support for monarchal rule. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/65 "2014-11-01T02:30:09Z")
One thought I had is that it is implied that in the Marvel Cinematic Universe that most of Earth’s “super” technology is reverse engineered from Asgardian tech. Iron Man’s arc reactor came from the Stark’s study of the tessaract, and vibranium seems to have some connection to them as well. If the super-soldier serum also came from the study of leftover Asgardian stuff (like a dropped cooler of their version of Red Bull) then Captain America could have enough juice in him that the hammer recognizes him as part-Asgardian. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/66 "2014-11-01T15:47:11Z")
I don’t think the arc reactor comes from the tesseract. I think it mostly comes from the repulsor tech, which Howard already had (in at least a rudimentary form) before the events of _Captain America_. I think it’s basically just a fusion reactor that’s contained via repulsors. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/67 "2014-11-01T15:50:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One interpretation of that _Avengers II_ scene: Steve _is_ fully worthy. He has no metaphysical impediment to moving the hammer. But it’s still a really heavy hammer, heavy enough that he can’t wield it as an effective weapon. When he grabs it, he moves it a little… and having satisfied himself that he can do it, he stops trying, because he doesn’t feel the need to show off. But it is not that heavy or it would break the table. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/68 "2014-11-01T16:23:27Z")
Maybe the table is worthy. And from the reactions within the scene, I don’t think Rogers realized he had budged the hammer. His strength is somewhat inconsistently depicted, to be sure, but even if the hammer had a physical mass of 500 lbs or so, Rogers should be able to move it if the enchantment would allow. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/69 "2014-11-02T20:22:09Z")
It doesn’t break the table because it’s immobile. Whatever its weight is, it’s supporting it itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/70 "2014-11-02T20:36:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It doesn’t break the table because it’s immobile. Whatever its weight is, it’s supporting it itself. Kinda makes me wonder how Thor can drop the hammer, as he does several times. If the hammer can bootstrappingly support its own weight, wouldn’t it just hover any time he let go of it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/71 "2014-11-02T21:19:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Isn’t all matter in the universe forged in the heart of a dying star? But not, generally speaking, with an anvil and a hammer. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/72 "2014-11-03T03:00:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t think the arc reactor comes from the tesseract. From the Movie Universe, Howard Stark developed the first arc reactor which used a palladium core. Tony developed a miniaturized arc reactor also using a palladium core. While Tony is dealing with palladium poisoning in _Iron Man 2_, he discovers from his father’s research that Howard always knew that there was a better theoretical element that would more efficiently power the arc reactor. Howard mapped out the theoretical atom for this new element but was unable to synthesize it. Tony is able to synthesize it and uses the new element- Starkium- to power all subsequent arc reactor technology, allowing him to power that big ugly building in New York. Watching _Iron Man 2_ and _Captain America: The First Avenger_ together, I always thought it was _very_ strongly implied that Howard Stark discovered this element either through the Tesseract itself or through the “ammunition” from the Tesseract powered weaponry. So, it may be true that the _arc reactor_ does not come from the Tesseract, it seems that the element later named Starkium does come from the Tesseract. At least, that is how I had always interpreted the origins of Howard Stark’s discovery. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/73 "2014-11-03T03:20:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But not, generally speaking, with an anvil and a hammer. In all fairness, we don’t actually _know_ it isn’t. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/74 "2014-11-04T00:03:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’d think being an overt Christian would disqualify Cap When has Cap been overtly Christian? I know John Walker was, but Steve? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/75 "2014-11-04T01:51:32Z")
In the movies, he definitely is. “There’s only one God, Ma’am, and I’m pretty sure He doesn’t dress like that”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/76 "2014-11-04T11:17:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In the movies, he definitely is. “There’s only one God, Ma’am, and I’m pretty sure He doesn’t dress like that”. In fairness, I also talk like that, because I’m a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/77 "2014-11-04T13:40:46Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > So, it may be true that the _arc reactor_ does not come from the Tesseract, it seems that the element later named Starkium does come from the Tesseract. At least, that is how I had always interpreted the origins of Howard Stark’s discovery. I thought the metal he synthesized was “vibranium”, (which is allegedly also the material Cap’s shield is made from, although that must have been from a different source). The main hint I was thinking of was that Loki’s staff wouldn’t penetrate Tony’s chest with the Arc reactor in place. Kind of implies that to the extent that Loki’s staff is “magic”, the arc reactor is also the same kind of magic. Also it glows the same colour as the tessaract, which tends to mean a lot in movies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/78 "2014-11-04T13:45:43Z")
Nah, Howard Stark had access to vibranium, since (in the movies) he’s the one who made the shield in the first place. He could have used it to make arc reactors if he wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/79 "2014-11-04T13:46:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’d think being an overt Christian would disqualify Cap Except for Loki, the Asgardians don’t seem to think they’re gods, so I’m not sure that really counts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920/80 "2014-11-04T15:00:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Maybe the table is worthy. This made me 😃 > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > In fairness, I also talk like that, because I’m a Jew. Wouldn’t you say “There’s only one _G-d_, Ma’am…” though? The “overt Christian would disqualify him” thing was just a joke, people. Of course Rogers is probably worthy, boyscout that he is. _Marvel 1602_ is the only Cap storyline I can recall offhand where he wouldn’t be, and that’s an alternative setting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-thor-more-worthy-to-wield-mjolnir-than-cap/702920.md?page=5)