# Why is Ticket Scalping Illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382 "2005-06-22T16:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/21 "2005-06-22T21:41:33Z")
The only reason there are ticket touts is because some people are so self indulgent that they \*\*have \*\* to have a ticket for whatever it is. “Look at me, I’m so important I MUST go to this match/gig/event. I didn’t get my arse in gear in time to buy a ticket through the proper channels. Waaaah. I want to go And the only people who I can get a ticket off now are the touts and they’ll charge me a fortune. I’m still going though. I’ve got the kind of money that lets me pay the stupid price. Aren’t I important?” The touts are only supplying a commodity to the people with more money than sense. If real fans want to go to whatever it is, they get the tickets through the proper authority. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/22 "2005-06-22T22:05:09Z")
When I bought a series of tickets to the Hollywood Bowl in one of the boxes (which are hard to get), the sales person told me that they had a great resale value. In California, reselling tickets is legal as long as it is not done on the premises of the event. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/23 "2005-06-22T22:11:00Z")
Am I the only one annoyed at Live8 for not selling the tickets at the highest possible price in order to make the most possible money for charity? I feel when you are engaged in a charity fund rasing activity it is up to you to make the most money possible for that charity. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/24 "2005-06-22T22:13:46Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > The touts are only supplying a commodity to the people with more money than sense. If real fans want to go to whatever it is, they get the tickets through the proper authority. There’s plenty of situations where there’s more real fans than there are tickets. Anything from a gala concert at the Met to the world cup final, there’s many times more people who would have bought tickets than were able to. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/25 "2005-06-22T22:15:53Z")
Scalping has been around forever, long before Ticketmaster and the like were even tiny little greedy dreams in their owners’ eyes. [TICKET SCALPERS ARRESTED DATELINE 1899](http://www.buffalonian.com/history/articles/1851-1900/1899TICKETSCALPERS.html). ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/26 "2005-06-22T22:31:54Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > There’s plenty of situations where there’s more real fans than there are tickets. Anything from a gala concert at the Met to the world cup final, there’s many times more people who would have bought tickets than were able to. That’s pretty self evident. No promoter would put anything on at all if there was no demand for it. But it’s a case of wudda cudda shudda. You don’t get a ticket to something? Hard luck. Better luck next time. You choose to pay vastly over the odds for this ticket for it? Self indulgent ninny You then complain about touts? Deluded self indulgent ninny with more money than sense Note I don’t mean you, **personally** , I mean those who do. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/27 "2005-06-22T22:35:30Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > You choose to pay vastly over the odds for this ticket for it? Self indulgent ninny > You then complain about touts? Deluded self indulgent ninny with more money than sense I don’t see this thread being filled with people complaind _and_ having bought tickets off touts. And in any case, where did the touts’ tickets originate from? From the ‘official’ channels intended for real fans to buy direct. Every ticket that gets into a tout’s hands is one less that was available for a genuine purchaser. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/28 "2005-06-22T22:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Neurotik: > > The idea is to prevent people from buying huge blocks of the tickets in order to create and artificial shortage, then sell them for a higher price. This is exactly what many ticket agencies/brokers do as a course or normal business. How does _that_ work? > [@](#): > > Gazpacho: > > Concert promoters can’t just sell the tickets for huge prices because that pisses people off. Rolling Stones tickets are going for $400 each (plus a $21.25 “convenience charge”) at Ticketmaster. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/29 "2005-06-22T22:46:41Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > If the Ticketmaster markup was 500-1000%, it’d be a decent analogy. > > …subject to the conditions under which the ticket was sold. Turn up to the opera so drunk you can hardly walk, or with an away ticket for a football match wearing a home shirt, and you won’t be getting in. If it’s sold with a ‘non-transferable’ clause, then this would be a valid reason to refuse entry to the person who bought it second-hand. Of course, it’s almost impossible to identify them on the door, hence explicitly forbidding it earlier on in the chain. …And if Ticketmaster provided no value. Remember when you used to have to wait in line for 8 days to get tickets? Nowadays, you can do the whole thing from your computer for any venue in the country, and have the same chance as everyone else as getting the good seats. (Note: Their are a lot of unethical scams regarding reserving seats, but they are mostly at the promoter/venue level. Ticketmaster runs a fair game.) ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/30 "2005-06-22T23:01:26Z")
No nobody is complaining, you’re right, **GorillaMan**. I’d say the touts get their tickets from teh same place as everyone else. If they can get them, why can’t the people who aren’t touts get them? what am i missing? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/31 "2005-06-22T23:12:16Z")
Because concert promoters care more than just about immediate profit. If only the rich and famous go to your concert, then they will just tell al their rich and famous friends. However, if you can get a wide a cross section into your concert as possible, then the word of mouh effect is much greater. Also, younger but poorer students are also an attractive group to get into your concerts because they generate the buzz about whats cool. So it’s not just a matter of maximising profit. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/32 "2005-06-22T23:28:41Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > I’d say the touts get their tickets from teh same place as everyone else. If they can get them, why can’t the people who aren’t touts get them? > what am i missing? Ideally, yes, they get them from the same place. But then why is it that I can always find tickets in the front couple of rows for a show at a scalper’s site? How do they always get lucky and never have to sell nosebleeds? For example: I just did a quick Google search for tickets to **Dead Can Dance** in Chicago. My first hit shows they have several sets of tickets in the first and second row available, including one set of six tickets together in the second row. However, I literally got into [Ticketmaster.com](http://Ticketmaster.com)’s queue within **one second** of tickets going on sale (I was repeatedly reloading the page until they were available) …so why are my two tickets in row N (that’s row 20)? It just seems hard to believe that all of their people coincidentally beat me to the punch and got the best seats in the house. Maybe they did … I just doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/33 "2005-06-22T23:32:30Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > For example: I just did a quick Google search for tickets to **Dead Can Dance** in Chicago. My first hit shows they have several sets of tickets in the first and second row available, including one set of six tickets together in the second row. Are these tickets _really_ available? It could just be a rather simplistic con, getting you to go through the process of registering for the site, entering details, and “Sorry, those tickets are no longer available - how about row ZZZQ instead?” Even if nine out of ten don’t buy, the 10% that do are probably handing over a hefty commission etc. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/34 "2005-06-22T23:43:19Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Am I the only one annoyed at Live8 for not selling the tickets at the highest possible price in order to make the most possible money for charity? I feel when you are engaged in a charity fund rasing activity it is up to you to make the most money possible for that charity. Bob Geldof has repeatedly said that the Live8 concerts are not about charity but about raising awareness. The idea is that people in the various countries will be moved to petition their governments to do something about African debt relief, and that this will affect said governments’ actions at the G8 summit the following week. > [@interface2x](#): > > I just did a quick Google search for tickets to Dead Can Dance in Chicago. My first hit shows they have several sets of tickets in the first and second row available, including one set of six tickets together in the second row. However, I literally got into [Ticketmaster.com](http://Ticketmaster.com)’s queue within one second of tickets going on sale (I was repeatedly reloading the page until they were available) …so why are my two tickets in row N (that’s row 20)? My impression is that the first few rows of large concerts are not distributed to the hoi polloi (i.e. through TicketMaster), but are given out as promotional items. It wouldn’t surprise me one iota if some such tickets end up in the hands of ticket brokers, either directly or indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/35 "2005-06-23T00:26:36Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Was scalping illegal Long, Long Ago? Or perhaps banning scalping is a fairly recent development? I suspect that the answer is different in every jurisdiction. In my home state of Illinois, laws against ticket scalping were originally passed as “consumer protection”. During the days when circuses and county fairs were popular forms of entertainment, barkers would buy tickets from the box office, carry them to the outskirts of town, and resell them at a premium to unsuspecting rubes who didn’t realize they were paying extra for nothing. As a result, the law was worded to forbid ticket resale at prices over face value from anywhere outside of a fixed business establishment. This isn’t much of an issue today; most people wanting to buy tickets to a concert or sports event know perfectly well whether tickets are available from the box office and, if so, at what price. As so often happens, however, the law has taken on a life of its own. Brokers have opened up in storefronts, especially near Wrigley Field, to resell tickets legally and they like to be able to muscle away the competition from kids hustling out on the street. So the law remains on the books and is sporadically enforced against street dealers. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/36 "2005-06-23T00:34:20Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > The touts are only supplying a commodity to the people with more money than sense. If real fans want to go to whatever it is, they get the tickets through the proper authority. It’s illegal too in France and I understand that the idea is precisely that real fans would never be able to buy tickets through the proper authority otherwise. Professionnals would buy them all and resell it at higher prices. This would create a kind of parasitic middlemen you would have to go through to buy them. It’s not in the interest of the organizer (who would gain nothing in the process) nor of the fans. This might be “free market”, but free arket isn’t necessarily more efficient nor necessarily works in the best interest of everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/37 "2005-06-23T01:36:40Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > Ideally, yes, they get them from the same place. But then why is it that I can always find tickets in the front couple of rows for a show at a scalper’s site? How do they always get lucky and never have to sell nosebleeds? > > For example: I just did a quick Google search for tickets to **Dead Can Dance** in Chicago. My first hit shows they have several sets of tickets in the first and second row available, including one set of six tickets together in the second row. However, I literally got into [Ticketmaster.com](http://Ticketmaster.com)’s queue within **one second** of tickets going on sale (I was repeatedly reloading the page until they were available) …so why are my two tickets in row N (that’s row 20)? It just seems hard to believe that all of their people coincidentally beat me to the punch and got the best seats in the house. > > Maybe they did … I just doubt it. I doubt it, too. I’ve long suspected that many professional scalpers (in states where scalping is legal) have some sort of inside connection that allows them to buy all of the best seats before the general public can. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/38 "2005-06-23T01:48:59Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > As a result, the law was worded to forbid ticket resale at prices over face value from anywhere outside of a fixed business establishment. Good morning, Dopers! I still cannot figure out what the ‘correct’ policy should be. The laws are all over the place. Some other poster, in some other jurisdiction, reported it was illegal to sell tickets on the venue site, that is you had to be elsewhere. You report in Chicago you have to be on the site. I am still not seeing the harm these people are doing. If I have it, and you want it, I should be allowed to sell it. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/39 "2005-06-23T02:03:28Z")
When I was in Moscow, we wanted to go to the Bolshoy ballet, so went to buy tickets at the correct place - they cost $20 US which was fairly pricey for Russia and they were horrible seats - we had to half stand up to see more than 1/3 of the stage. However, the scalpers were selling tickets for $1 and $2, right outside the theatre - they were probably nicer seats too! ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382/40 "2005-06-23T02:32:31Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Are these tickets _really_ available? It could just be a rather simplistic con, getting you to go through the process of registering for the site, entering details, and “Sorry, those tickets are no longer available - how about row ZZZQ instead?” Even if nine out of ten don’t buy, the 10% that do are probably handing over a hefty commission etc. That is a reasonable question. I cannot confirm whether or not these tickets actually exist or if they are just throwing out possibles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ticket-scalping-illegal/309382.md?page=3)